Inexpensive & splurges
Several related questions stand out for me in this episode's discussion.
The ignition was this one from a listener in episode 289:
AlmostPerfection asks: What is your favorite cheap tool in the shop? Favorite tool you treated yourself on?
In the second part of that question, John, Logan, and I agreed that "treated" doesn't mean most expensive. It had to be a tool that gets used regularly and has some feature that makes it special or unique.
The pivot in the chat came when Logan told of his insurance updates for the items in his workshop. We talked about how not every tool needs a specific value.
I then wondered, if disaster struck and you lost your shop, how would you rebuild? What tools would you replace? or how would it change your woodworking focus?
I'd love to know what you think.
Transcript
Phil Huber (01:31.655) It is episode 290 of the ShopNotes Podcast. We're closing in on 300 and people are making crazy faces at that possible number. I'm Phil along with John and Logan today, and we're going to check in on some shop projects. Logan's got his outfeed table come work bench project that he's working on. I have a tool chest that has seen some travels lately and could use some upgrades.
John's probably got a secret or two stashed away as well. We're gonna get things started here. 289 podcasts means that there's a bunch for you to listen to if you haven't checked in already. If you're new to the ShopNotes podcast, you could check out our YouTube channel for a lot of those back ones or check out the show notes pages over at woodsmith.com slash podcasts.
All right, we're going to kick things off with some listener comments, which sometimes feels like they're more baiting than they are necessarily comments.
Logan (03:25.293) Respect.
John Doyle (03:26.592) Yes. We are easily baited, so
Phil Huber (03:30.79) Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure exactly what that means for us. Like what does that say about us personally maybe? don't know. Bony Board Woodshop says, season 21 of The Woodsmith Shop brought to you by ShopSmith. This season you'll get Logan turning a bowl, Phil shows off the incredible three inches of resaw capacity, and John narrates from the kitchen.
Logan (03:45.614) Hm.
John Doyle (03:56.597) Hey, we'll we'll take Shopsmith money. We don't care.
Phil Huber (03:59.687) Yeah, first of all, I think that the shop Smith bandsaw has a resaw capacity much larger than three inches. I was just walking past it on the way here. I'm going to say it's at least five closer to six.
Logan (04:00.95) Speak for yourself.
John Doyle (04:13.18) Mm-hmm. It's an average resell resaw capacity. Perfectly average. Yeah. And what do you even need that much resaw capacity for? Really? Yeah. It's wasteful. Other than if you're over five inch capacity of resaw.
Logan (04:17.239) It's perfectly average. Some people have larger resaw capacities.
Phil Huber (04:18.136) Right.
Logan (04:24.62) You just show it off, yeah.
John Doyle (04:33.695) You don't even need that.
Phil Huber (04:38.27) Shopsmith says, maybe you can build an actual Trojan horse with the Mark 7, or is it a woodsmith horse? We are in the building, let's build something together.
Logan (04:51.086) Who let them into the audience?
John Doyle (04:53.222) I know. Blocked and banned. Yep.
Logan (04:56.725) Andrew, get out of here.
Phil Huber (05:00.872) Michael Thompson says, John, just a tip here. It has served me well over the course of 25 years of woodworking. If you set the bar low enough, you will always exceed expectations.
Logan (05:10.967) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (05:11.028) Yep. Step right over.
Phil Huber (05:13.66) Yep. I'm not a design expert, but when it comes to tool chests, could you just make an empty box with slots in it and then make a series of tool holders, egg crate style, to have a flexible store to have flexible storage? Just an idea.
Logan (05:30.828) A k a gridfinity.
Phil Huber (05:33.35) Right, yeah. And that's a possibility. Jeff Baker says, if you can make it to Buffalo with your passport, Logan, the Niagara Falls Lee Valley store is not a long drive. I'll even show you the falls.
John Doyle (05:33.48) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (05:50.334) That's not bad.
Logan (05:50.86) I could have, but I got back from Canada.
John Doyle (05:55.809) Sent that you got deported back back to the US.
Logan (05:57.711) Yeah, yeah, deported.
Phil Huber (05:58.867) the
Logan (06:00.814) I can't afford those tariffs again.
Phil Huber (06:05.171) JPN says, John Nasta. So what I heard is that you guys like a workbench that can take a punch.
Logan (06:12.696) Heck yeah. Yep.
John Doyle (06:13.224) Yes, we do.
Phil Huber (06:13.822) And that is true.
John Doyle (06:16.596) Good solid base on it. Yes.
Logan (06:18.018) Good healthy workbench.
Phil Huber (06:18.642) Yeah.
Phil Huber (06:23.902) Paul Christen says regarding tool chests, my brother has an antique one. It's handmade 35 inches long, 18 inches wide, 32 inches high. It has a hinged top with brackets to hold full size handsaws and a tray for smaller tools. A removable front panel is released by opening the top revealing drawers.
Loaded it requires at least two strong men to lift. There is evidence that it was in use around 1870. In those days you went to the job site with a wagon driving a team of horses and every tool you used was hand powered. I would suspect that this chest was owned by a carpenter building houses or post and beam barns. My brother is a longtime member of the Midwest Tool Collectors and has outfitted it with period tools. I wouldn't expect you to
make plans for anything like this, but just bring an awareness of forgotten scale of tool chests. Always enjoy your podcast, keep up the good work. Paul, I would like to see photos of this. That would be cool to put with show notes page. So if you can send that to us, woodsmith at woodsmith.com, that would be outstanding.
Logan (07:38.937) Think anybody that needs to understand the scale of some of these chests needs to go look at Brian DeYoung's Facebook page. He has a giant blue chest. And I have helped him move that thing so many times to so many different shows. And Brian's a big dude. Like he's well above six feet. I know his little
Phil Huber (07:54.162) Ha ha.
Logan (08:05.986) Boy, little boy is like six, seven, like he's huge. And this thing's built on Brian's scale. This thing's so freaking heavy. It has wheels. Dude moves it all over. Like, we we've moved it to the play and wellness events. he was just at the Kling Sport event demonstrating, and I saw the chest in the background there. It's like, yeah, that's the problem with these chests, is once they hit a certain size, you do need two grown men.
To move them. Like they are huge and they're heavy.
Phil Huber (08:37.084) Right, yeah.
Logan (08:39.884) So
Phil Huber (08:42.248) Yeah, I'll, well, I think we'll link to Brian's Facebook page too, in the show notes so you can take a look at his stuff. Bot Dad says, I used to sing in a Southern gospel quartet. And one thing we used to tell people was we never got into this to make money. And so far it's worked out really well.
John Doyle (09:02.973) Exceeding expectations.
Phil Huber (09:03.198) true.
Puppy Doc says, just for the record Logan, I offered you a shop Smith quite a while ago, but I honestly think you were afraid you might actually like it.
Logan (09:17.966) I think you're wrong, Bob.
Logan (09:24.982) We just we knew we knew that they would come crawling to us. That's what we knew. It is at this point, yeah.
John Doyle (09:29.45) I think it's it's psychological warfare, really. They put that in here and it mess it messes with your head, man. Walking by that all the time. I think the thing is, it's like as a like society says as a man, you're supposed to be the one to like solve the problems and and like do all the things. And then they they bring the shopsmith and pretty soon your wife's like the shopsmith's more of a man and a husband than you are, and the kids are calling.
Logan (09:36.983) Yeah.
Logan (09:56.759) Yeah, it's
John Doyle (09:57.769) Calling it dad and
Logan (10:02.318) All of a sudden it's it's pi Yeah. It's it's picking up the bill at dinner, family dinners.
John Doyle (10:02.572) Pretty soon you're out. Shops yeah, shopsmith in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tough, man. It really makes you it makes you yeah, it makes you step your game up for sure. For sure.
Phil Huber (10:13.726) slippery slope.
Phil Huber (10:20.094) Ed writes, please don't change the format of Woodworking in America. I believe Woodworking in America should be an education event with some commercial benefits, especially for lesser known small vendors with innovative tools.
Logan (10:36.418) That's a plan.
Phil Huber (10:36.678) Agreed. Preach. So thank you for that. That was off of the last comment about last episode's comment extended about expecting woodworking in America to be more of a trade show.
Logan (10:52.148) More vendors.
Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (10:57.278) I believe we have one here that I'm not going to try and pronounce it says this channel is clear and easy to follow and deserves recognition which feels like a bot but I'm not sure but if we're
Logan (11:09.772) I say AI, is that you?
John Doyle (11:09.952) Hm. Yeah, we'll take a Yeah. We don't care. Shopsmith, is that you?
Phil Huber (11:14.108) Yeah.
Logan (11:19.862) Mm.
Phil Huber (11:20.338) John has feist today.
Logan (11:22.446) Hey.
John Doyle (11:22.792) Yes.
Phil Huber (11:26.494) Ungee says, now that you've made up with shop Smith, are you going to have intarsha people at the next woodworking in America?
Logan (11:35.862) No, we don't have any intach demonstrators. Calm yourself.
John Doyle (11:36.158) I think so.
John Doyle (11:40.094) I think we should.
know, just let's I was just say peace. Just let's let's create peace with all of the people that I mean bring in Mortis and Tenen and
Phil Huber (11:43.11) Right. mean, if there's... Go ahead.
Logan (11:52.024) How No
Phil Huber (11:56.392) Ha ha ha.
John Doyle (11:57.589) Just have a peace woodworking peace summit.
Logan (11:58.957) We have to have turbulence.
Phil Huber (12:01.874) We could do like a Woodworkers Hands Across America kind of event that would just be, we can at some point in the middle of one of the Woodworking America days, just pipe in the old Coca-Cola song. Just, I'd like to buy the world a Coke. Keep it company.
John Doyle (12:03.401) John Doyle (12:18.56) Yeah. Let's bring in all of the woodworkers and sing we are the world. Led by Chris Christopher Schwartz.
Phil Huber (12:35.422) Jacob Schinker says, my comments keep getting censored by Google if you could only see the zingers that don't make it to the air.
John Doyle (12:37.738) Okay.
Phil Huber (12:46.344) Yep.
Phil Huber (12:50.046) And then Almost Perfection has one that I've saved till last year just to be like a transition to a segment here. And Almost goes into like the old school Shop Notes podcast when we would have the mailbag segments with questions. Sometimes Logan would fire off a bunch of questions that he had put together. You can find those in the back catalog there.
He writes, what is your favorite cheap tool in the shop? And then what is your favorite tool you treated yourself on?
Logan (13:25.889) Mm.
Logan (13:31.286) Mm.
Logan (13:37.858) Hmm.
John Doyle (13:38.036) Yes, indeed. I don't know if I've ever really treated myself on a tool. I'm pretty cheap.
John Doyle (13:49.792) I'm gonna have to go through my shop.
Logan (13:52.032) Yeah, I'm looking 'cause I had it. I had the cheap one.
Phil Huber (13:57.247) All right, my favorite cheap tool.
Phil Huber (14:02.424) is going to be the Harbor Freight T-handled Allen Wrench set.
Logan (14:11.234) Ooh, that's a good one. That is a good one.
Phil Huber (14:12.894) It was, it's like, I got it on sale after I think we had, was definitely after we got one for the TV show set because we were constantly losing and not having the correct size. And it was like, I don't know, $11 or something like that. And that set is just amazing. I have it kind of centrally located in my shop and use it all the time.
Logan (14:20.898) Yeah.
Logan (14:29.869) Yep,
John Doyle (14:41.012) Yeah. Dylan comes in from the other shop and asks for it by name and asks if he can borrow it.
Logan (14:41.048) Mm-hmm.
Logan (14:45.538) Well, I mean, y you guys should be saying no, absolutely not.
John Doyle (14:49.406) Right. It's so cheap though we could get another one. Yeah.
Phil Huber (14:50.578) Ha ha ha.
Logan (14:52.472) how we lose stuff. It's how we lose stuff.
Phil Huber (14:57.788) I think part of the genius of it, and it's not obviously not tied to this specific tool, but with all the Allen wrenches on display in an open rack like that, if one is missing, you know it's not there and you know to go looking for it. So it's less likely to stay missing. If you have a drawer of just rando Allen wrenches, probably with like
Logan (15:13.325) Yeah.
Logan (15:19.63) Mm.
Phil Huber (15:27.044) eight of sizes that you will never ever use again. It's hard to know if any one particular one is missing.
John Doyle (15:33.886) Yeah. And they have the big, you know, colored handles on so they're easy to find. They're hard to put in your pocket and go through the wash and not yeah, they're easy to find butcha if they are missing. So yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one.
Phil Huber (15:44.54) Yeah, that's true.
Logan (15:45.934) Mm-hmm.
Logan (15:53.167) so I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out my cheap one. I have a couple. The the Allen Ranch one's a good one. It's I can see it sitting behind the 3D printer right now. I love this little stupid thing. It's just a it is like a I don't know, magnesium die cast razor blade holder, but it is little orange safety razors. like it came off of Amazon.
Phil Huber (16:07.559) Okay.
Logan (16:23.5) I think I got two of the blade holders plus like a hundred, I have a case of like a hundred blades for like eight bucks. And I use this all the time. for this is my glue scraper. Like, you know what I mean? Like it this is my it's skimmed over glue scraper. It's the the little plastic edge is soft enough that you don't gouge up the wood like you can with other things.
Phil Huber (16:37.022) So nice.
Logan (16:51.156) I did I did buy one of because Phil has one and I really liked how it works. Yeah. this is really nice too, but I find it's way easier if I have this thing. so this is usually in my in my little pouch. it's usually sitting in here. I'm gonna say my favorite one is in here too. my favorite expen I'm gonna say expensive. That's not like
Phil Huber (16:56.178) Yeah.
Logan (17:20.426) Initially I say, you know, some of my blue spruce stuff or Hillview Tool stuff, like I would, you know, maybe throw some of that stuff as like my best splurge, but like those are at a different level than most things. and I think most people see the value in buying those. I'm going this is like I got I had a little bit of the tism with a few things. Tape measures is one.
This stupid stereot tape measure. It's a 12 footer. However, it this was made in the I think 80s. for sure this was my dad's. sorry, dad. but I love it enough that I've been trying to find I have a running eBay search for for these. In particular, this 12 foot one. I found a bunch of 16 footers. So I bought three of them because it was like a three pack.
John Doyle (17:56.915) Okay.
Phil Huber (18:12.381) Okay.
Logan (18:20.44) But what I didn't realize, and I think what I really like, is this stare at one says 12 foot slash four meters, which means it's both in freedom units and in communist units. This one is only in freedom units. I sometimes like having metric on the tape measure too. And I say that's my favorite like splurge that I treated myself.
John Doyle (18:36.264) Mm-hmm.
Logan (18:49.186) I think jacked it for my dad's shop, but you can go to Harbor Freight and buy a what $2 tape measure probably. and I have a bunch of those. I can't tell you where a single one is, but I always know where my stir is. So and it's not like it's it's not like it's a $300 tape measure. It's probably a $45, $50 tape measure new. but I like it.
John Doyle (19:17.962) Yeah, I like the the twelve foot size a little bit better. The sixteen foot ones they get a little chonky for like you're carrying around the shop or putting in your pocket or I like
Logan (19:23.704) They it is, yeah.
I mean, it's yeah, it's signific it's significantly bigger. which I was like, sixteen foot stare it, like it's gonna be fine. Like it it's still a nice tape measure and I have now have three of them, but yeah.
John Doyle (19:45.523) I can't really think of a cheap thing that I like, because all my stuff's cheap and I like it well enough. But maybe the free shopsmith we got, maybe that's gonna be my new favorite cheap tool, because it was free. You know? The price, the price is- what? Darn it! Well, better get my use out of it now. but the things that I
Logan (19:59.161) They're taking it back, John. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Phil Huber (20:07.102) I don't know, John might put like his name on some masking tape and put it underneath it like you do at your grandma's house. And then when Shop Smith will be like, maybe John can have this.
John Doyle (20:12.766) Yeah, yeah.
Logan (20:13.302) Hmm. So when we when we k when we kill Shopsmith again we get to keep it?
John Doyle (20:20.66) They won't die. They won't die. They're gonna kill us. They probably planted something on that to kill us. No, they're not going anywhere. They're in good hands. But no, the the thing that like I said, I'm kind of cheap, but the things I would spend money on in my shop are screws. I hate cheap screws. Spend I'll spend money on screws, and then a router lift.
Logan (20:21.123) Yeah.
Phil Huber (20:21.214) They're listening.
Logan (20:24.622) Probably
Logan (20:42.946) Yeah. Yep.
John Doyle (20:49.15) Like I would not I mean, they're they're you know, they're not cheap, but I don't think I could use a router table without a router left. I just
Logan (20:50.094) Fair. Yeah.
John Doyle (21:00.692) Just inconvenient.
Logan (21:00.962) I'm going I'm I would have agreed with you, John, until I got the Woodpecker's stable. It's the stable Max RT and it has the trim router base that snaps in to it. And I have the Milwaukee router in it. It doesn't have a lift. I use that thing for frickin' everything. And and maybe it's because it is a bench top router table and I can just put it on the workbench and the adjustments right there and I'm not
digging inside something. I get I do get it. but I I definitely could I think I could live without that one.
John Doyle (21:37.14) Yeah. I can see that 'cause that you take it out and just use the router with the base, right? With that one. So so yeah, you can't really you can't have a yeah, you can't really have a lift on that. But like for a full size router table. A dedicated router table I would have.
Logan (21:42.658) Yeah. I I do, yes. Yes. Yeah. So the it just snaps out.
Logan (21:51.469) Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Huber (21:59.729) I, for the ones that I treated myself on recently is like John, I'm a very thrifty person when it comes to equipping my shop. And, I've gotten a bunch of stuff from my dad. and then even just the fact of working here, being in a community of other woodworkers, like we're trading tools all the time.
Logan (22:26.435) Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (22:30.666) so that's been kind of fun is to have that, but you know, like last week I was with the Indiana central Indiana woodworkers and it's a similar kind of deal where during the club meeting, people are talking about, you know, I've been looking for an another guy's like, I have one. I'll send it to you, you know, or bring it up the next meeting or whatever. So get involved with the club and find some inexpensive tools. Anyway,
Logan (22:49.966) Yeah.
Logan (22:57.368) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (23:00.37) Because of that, if I have a given X of something, I'm much less likely to replace it because I have one. You know, but last year I got some Christmas money with the idea, with the condition applied to it where it's like, buy something that you would normally not get yourself.
Logan (23:11.192) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (23:29.48) for a tool and I ended up getting three Japanese chisels. The set of chisels that I have I got from my wife as a wedding gift. So they're kind of loaded with nostalgia already and they're serviceable tools. But I've been looking at getting some nice Japanese chisels for a while and then ended up getting three of them.
Logan (23:35.022) Mm.
Phil Huber (23:56.103) And I don't know that I would get necessarily anymore because I got a half inch one, metric half inch, an eighth inch one, which I don't have in my regular set. So that's like a one I didn't have. then, long time listeners of the podcast will know I've been on the lookout for a wide chisel. And then I got a, it's like inch and three quarter wide Japanese chisel and
They're fantastic tools and I'm really glad that I got them, even though like the half inch one is kind of a double, so to speak, but it's just really nice to have on hand.
Logan (24:38.23) Yeah. I guess it it's in it's an interesting question because I almost look at it like not what is the most expensive tool, right? Because like 'cause I have some expensive tools.
Phil Huber (24:50.877) yeah, for sure.
John Doyle (24:52.552) Okay.
Logan (24:56.418) But I'm more like what one is the most valuable to me, I guess. And that's why I say that tape measure. Cause like I like that tape measure gets used on every single thing I do in the shop. Every single thing I do. you know, if I'm building kitchen cabinets, I don't usually grab a a hand plane. You know? if I'm building a piece of furniture, track saw probably is getting left hanging on the wall. but like that tape measure gets used in everything. So
That's kinda where I go with it. But
Phil Huber (25:28.828) Yeah, no, I think so. And I think that's
Phil Huber (25:34.834) Yeah, the MVP of a sports team isn't necessarily the flashy star player.
you know, in football, might be the left tackle that just does his job.
Logan (25:49.091) You know, on this on this note, I kind of have been this is this came up a long time ago when one of our listeners lost a bunch of stuff in a fire. We taught we started talking about a shop inventory list and kind of maintaining an inventory list. And I actually started doing that not yesterday. It must have been Sunday. I started doing that. And I
There's a lot of opinions about AI, right? Like AI use. Is it good? Is it not? Does it help you? Does it not? Whatever. Does it kill jobs? Like, I don't like keep your opinions to yourself.
Phil Huber (26:29.352) Says the guy who almost never keeps his opinion to himself.
Logan (26:29.582) I was hoping somebody was gonna catch that. Yeah. I have a lot of opinions. With that said though, I tell you what, Jarvis and I have been making a shop inventory list and it has been phenomenal. And this is something that my wife has asked me to do for a long time. I don't know if it's because she's planning on getting rid of me or not.
John Doyle (26:32.028) Yeah. He's like, don't give me any opinions. I already have plenty of them.
Logan (26:59.938) But it was one of those and and I I think it probably comes up because very regularly I get contacted by people I know, like, hey, my husband passed away. Here's all his tools. I don't know what they're worth. So I go and help, right? and she doesn't want to have to deal with that. now luckily if if her dad was around, her dad is an avid woodworker. He knows what all my stuff is is worth and stuff. So like he would help her. But if he's not around,
She would like to have some form of idea on like what to sell stuff for or what the value of it is. And this all kind of is coming to a a front because her the her job requires us to hold certain insurance. so we're we're re-looking at our insurance and we realize that hey, we do not have enough insurance on like the the items in our house and in our shop.
So I so for Sunday afternoon, I was out here working on this outfeed table and I'm just doing some handwork stuff. I cut what probably twelve, twelve feet of sixteen feet of bead molding by hand, just standing here having a blast on a Sunday watching football and talking to my AI assistant Jarvis. And I had Jarvis start running a shop inventory list, which was actually really
Nice. Like I'm standing here working and I am just shouting out items like, you know, set of blue spruce dovetail chisels. And it is dropping those into a Excel spreadsheet and simultaneously putting a a value on it as far as like a retail value sold listings based on eBay and giving you a link for that. So it's like
I'm just telling it, like, I don't have to remember what I paid for any of this stuff. some of the stuff it doesn't know, like molding planes. It has no idea what what to charge for molding or what to list for molding planes, but I can at least say 52 molding planes. or I can say, you know, whatever. and it was great. Like, I'm up to 103 items on this list. and I'm just kind of hitting like the big
John Doyle (29:18.591) Okay.
Logan (29:23.234) the big items that are like, well, if if something happened to the shop, like a tornado hit or fire or whatever, those were those are the big things that I would need to replace or would want to replace. so it's it's been it's been kinda cool. I I'd be interested to hear if anybody else has put together a shop list. I know we talked about it years ago about doing that. but I don't know
as we're looking at our insurances, probably need to get a hold of our insurance carrier and say, hey, for like the big tools like the table saw, the the joiner, the planer, the two bandsaws, like what do we need to have? Do we need to have serial numbers? Do we need to have like what do we need to have for for you guys to cover these in case something would happen? You know? I I have luckily
With what we do, I have a lot of photos and videos in my shop. So like I could probably find a photo or video of everything in here, but it's just it's one of those things. It's it's been something I have it's been in the back of my mind to to do for a long time. but if anybody needs to do it, you can download the chat GPT app, open it up and turn it in conversation mode, and then you can just walk around your shop telling it what to add to the list and it will add it. It's great.
Phil Huber (30:44.924) Yeah, that brings up a good question that you were hinting at there, Logan, you know, like the shop inventory versus value, you know, where two things that I see with that. So looking at it from the perspective of a survivor, which unfortunately happens regularly, you know, if Elaine is going to try and deal with all of your shop, there's probably going to be a big list of tools where
Logan (30:53.368) Yeah.
Logan (31:01.869) Yep.
Yep.
Phil Huber (31:14.63) you would probably say to her, these are valuable, whereas there's going to be buckets of things where it's just like, these are just garage sale items. Kind of get what you get or donate them or whatever.
Logan (31:26.382) Ye and it has to be. And it's like, how do you how do you break that out? Like, hey, look for the stuff with the yellow dot on it. Those are the valuable things. You know what I mean? Like you put the whack dot on everything that's worth selling, or like, I don't know. It's just yeah, it's cause the
John Doyle (31:36.564) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (31:36.87) Right. Yeah.
Phil Huber (31:42.631) Yeah, I mean, that's where the that's where the list or even just a photo album of stuff in the shop where it's like, this album is the stuff that or linked to a spreadsheet. This is the stuff that is worth money to the family. And this stuff is like, you know, you get what you get from it. And then in a similar vein is like, should disaster strike? And it's a catastrophic loss on someone's shop.
Logan (31:48.962) Yeah.
Logan (31:56.269) Yep.
Logan (32:03.608) Yeah.
John Doyle (32:06.858) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (32:12.412) And I'm going to put this out there for everybody is there's, don't think there's a need to ensure replacement value for every single item in your shop because your shop was built over time. Like what would be the items that you would want to replace to get back up and running? And then you gather new things as you went along and realize like, I had XYZ.
Logan (32:36.621) Yeah.
Phil Huber (32:41.148) I never really used it, so I don't know that I want to add it back. Not that you would want to necessarily lose it now, but...
Logan (32:48.024) Correct. Well, and like, I mean, insurance is also there to cover your investment, right? So whether you would want to replace it or not, the insurance is there for it. so like a good example is my router bits. Like I have a hundred router bits probably, 90 router bits, and some of them are menard specials. Some of them are
Really nice woodpecker's ultra shear. more and more are becoming the nice woodpecker's ultra shear router bits. but it's like they're not super expensive, but like thirty to sixty dollars per bit adds up when you have a hundred of them, right? So it's like there's three thousand dollars sitting in that drawer. So it's like I'm not gonna inventory every one of those, but like
Phil Huber (33:34.608) yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Logan (33:45.461) opening the drawer and taking a picture, that's pretty easy. you know, same thing with what was the other thing I was looking at? Clamps. It's like, you know, I have I don't know 20 F style Bessies, a bunch of, you know, two dozen parallel clamps. Like those add up real quick. so it just I kind of was like, I got i I will I will say that
Phil Huber (33:49.33) Yeah. Right.
Logan (34:14.112) The AI thing, it takes a while to catch up to like price like it it can't work as fast as I am, right? So it's like I'm saying, like, add this, add this, add this, add this, add this. And it says, All right, cool. We've added 90 things. I don't have prices for 85 of them. Do you want me to keep working on it in the background? Yep. Keep working on it. So like later that evening, I was like, Hey, how close are we, Jarvis? And I I make it refer to me as Mr. Stark. It's pretty awesome. says Mr. Stark, where at?
John Doyle (34:22.9) Yeah.
Logan (34:42.924) You know, 92 items priced for a total value of like ninety thousand dollars. I'm like, boah, like my god. my god. But then but then I started looking at yeah, yes, yes, well yeah, there's there's gonna be protocol for when I die, she has to access this a certain way. but like some of that is like
John Doyle (34:50.208) you're like, delete protocol. Do not let this get to my wife. Abort, abort. Wipe the memory.
Phil Huber (34:51.998) Ha ha.
John Doyle (35:04.512) Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Logan (35:12.706) It's trying to price a 36-inch crescent bandsaw or a 20-inch pattern makers lathe with all the accessories. And it's throwing a random number in there. So it's not perfect. So it's like I have to go in and say, okay, here's what I actually paid for it, which is probably more what insurance would try to do, not necessarily replacement cost. I don't, I guess I don't know. And that's a good discussion. And if anybody that listens is in insurance, I would love to know what.
John Doyle (35:19.668) Yeah. Yeah.
Logan (35:41.005) That is, or like what the protocol for that is, because it's like I may have paid, you know, $2,500 for my third six-inch bandsaw. However, if I was gonna go out and buy one, a replacement cost is significantly more than that. So it's like, how do you what should you insure it for? What's that protocol? And like I understand if I am insuring for replacement cost, I'm probably paying a higher monthly premium on it versus
what I paid for it.
Phil Huber (36:10.344) Yeah. Right. that's, you know, like that's my, that's part of it too. Like buying insurance is risk management. The, well, the insurance itself is risk management as the shop owner is risk management on how much you want to insure it for, because you could spend a lot of money on insurance for something that is not super likely to happen. You know?
Logan (36:29.506) Yeah.
Logan (36:37.715) Exactly. Yeah.
Phil Huber (36:39.068) You know, and then like, what do you put value on? like for Logan, the tool chest behind you, any of your tool chest behind you, if you were to go in the custom furniture realm of what a piece like that would cost, like, is that what you're insuring it for? You know, like those are all questions that people need to ask themselves, you know, and I don't, and I don't, there is no answer for that.
Logan (36:46.125) Yeah.
Logan (36:55.361) Exactly. Yeah.
Logan (37:05.388) No. So it's just it's interesting. It it just it kinda tied into the the listener question on what you're what you're you know, what you splurge for yourself and sitting here thinking about value of what you know, what I've bought, what I've put into this hobby, and it's like, well, I actually just started trying to not not calculate that, but in a roundabout way trying to put a value on that. So
Phil Huber (37:34.056) Yeah. I, as we're talking, I kind of think of it too as
Phil Huber (37:43.679) And here's another question for people to comment on is say something would happen, wildfire, earthquake, whatever, something would come, totally wreck your shop. No lives lost, nobody injured, know, escaped by the hair of your chinny chin back. And you had to start over with tools. How would your shop be different?
Logan (37:53.272) Tornado. Yeah.
Phil Huber (38:13.382) moving forward because like I know for sure that I'm not the same woodworker that I was when I started gathering tools. And if given the chance to start over, like would my shop go in a totally different direction with a set of interests that I've kind of become now as opposed to the woodworker who started making his shop in my space.
you know, 17 years ago. I don't know. I don't know what that answer is.
Logan (38:50.796) Yeah, that is an interesting thought. Especially if you have your
If you have your shop insured for replacement value, let's just say a hundred thousand dollars. And it's like, fire, fire happens, tornado happens, you know, flood, whatever it is, and all of a sudden you don't have a shop. You have a space, but you don't have a shop, and you have, you know, a hundred thousand dollars sitting there of insurance claim money. That is what you are owed.
Yeah, how do you how do you restart? Like, do you say, okay, I'm thought I was gonna do a ton of turning. I had a lathe. I didn't do any turning. So we're not gonna buy a new lathe. you know, I buy all my stock at the lumberyard s4s. I don't need a planner and I don't need a joiner. You know? I it's it's an interesting thought to tailor to exactly what you discovered that you do.
But on the flip side then would you get to a point where you're like, God, I wish we really had that again.
John Doyle (39:55.625) Mm.
Phil Huber (39:58.621) Yeah, and yeah, I don't know. I don't know what what that answer would be.
Logan (40:01.794) And that's when you and that's when you buy a shopsmith Mark Seven and it has everything on it. Full circle. Yeah.
John Doyle (40:04.606) Mm-hmm. Boom. And it's not and then you still have what ninety thousand dollars left over to do whatever you want? I boom.
Phil Huber (40:11.462) Yeah, full circle. just came full circle, everybody.
Logan (40:17.805) Logan (40:22.146) I mean i I would be interested to hear like what and I I've s like 'cause I I do see this regularly on Facebook marketplace and and Facebook groups and stuff. It's like, you know, here's a 36 inch crescent bandsaw. Been through a fire. You know, here it is. And yeah, it's been through a fire, all right. But somebody
Probably could get it back into operational condition and and clean it and run it. Like you know? Would I want that? No, absolutely not. But
Phil Huber (41:07.314) Yeah, I don't know. These are all questions. Would it give you the opportunity to focus on a branch of woodworking that right now just occupies just a small part of what you do? And in the chance to start over, would you dive deeper into that section?
Who knows? All right, we'd love to hear you. You can send comments on that to woodsmith at woodsmith.com is the email address or on the ShopNotes podcast YouTube channel. Leave your comments there. A lot of questions that we've been dealing with today. We'd love to hear people's response to them. Next up, I think we're gonna check in with John on what you've been working on and what's going on with you.
John Doyle (41:54.393) yeah, well I finally got the drawings for your chest bench project. I don't know what it's called. We'll see. We'll see what it ends up being in the photographs. But I got those done and handed off, so I think we gotta go to Logan and get some t lumber to get that started. Yep, I've heard that. So yeah. We've got a c
Logan (42:15.938) Have a little bit of that. That's not on the inventory list though.
John Doyle (42:22.592) Clear it out, clear out the inventory. So we got that done. And then actually Mark designed a little table in his spare time that he's been building. And he needs that drawn up. So I'm sure I'll take that on. But it's kind of cool that he took initiative to do some design work and because I know he's got great ideas, so it's pretty cool. So
Logan (42:23.692) Yep.
John Doyle (42:50.132) been doing a lot of stuff on the computer lately, so drawings and
Logan (42:54.775) Okay.
John Doyle (42:57.424) What been up to.
Phil Huber (43:03.708) Logan, I know you have multiple projects going on right now.
Logan (43:07.34) Yeah, I do. It's the way of the world, isn't it? Yeah, prior number one. Well, yeah, we're working on this kitchen island. getting ready to do a video on that again tomorrow and Thursday. we got all the cases built, got face frames on. so now we're gonna tackle doors and drawers. went through this weekend and kinda laid out everything, where it's sitting.
One of the the sponsors of this video series is a company called Rev a Shelf. R E V A hyphen shelf. they make a ton of like storage accessories for cabinets, like kitchen cabinets, bathroom cabinets, closets, like storage, like anything storage. so they're sponsoring, they're one of our sponsors on this video. and so I was kind of measuring and seeing what products of theirs were gonna work.
So ended up that once I include their stuff in these cabinets, I only need to build five drawers, which is actually really nice. yeah, hate doing drawers, hate doing drawers. I tried to find us a drawer sponsor so I didn't have to build drawers. Could not though. Yep, could not. which is I mean it's fine. so we are doing doors and drawers tomorrow and Thursday.
John Doyle (44:20.798) Phil Huber (44:22.45) Wow.
Logan (44:33.014) And then the weekend I'm gonna be wrapping up this outfeed table. So it is like 85% of the way there. The last 15%, what takes the longest. as I mentioned earlier, I was doing did like 16 feet of like it's baseboard molding for the outfeed table. It just has a bead on the top. So I used this guy. I was I was gonna use my molding plane, but
My side bead molding plane is needs tuned up and I didn't want to mess with it. So instead I grabbed the the I think this is the Veritas medium or small plow plane with a beading cutter in there. And this thing worked like a champ. It was I mean it's soft maple. So as long as you're going the right grain direction, super easy. I mean, I think I did all the I was I was looking at it. I have a
Phil Huber (45:20.53) nice.
Logan (45:32.201) router bit to to do this. But I'm like, by the time I dig out a router, put the router bit in, there's gonna be dust all over. Like I just have a I have a pile of little curly cues sitting around my feet. That's it. And it just was nice and fast. so I just sprayed the first coat of primer on those before we started recording this. the drawers are done. so the
Baseboard needs to go on, and then I have to build a door as well as two large pullouts. So and turn a few shaker knobs. I I have six shaker knobs to turn, but once I get into shaker knob turning mode, those six will take me probably twenty minutes to turn. So they'll be super fast. So yeah. So I'm excited to have this thing wrapped up. It is something I've looked at putting together for a long time.
And as much as I love my Craig outfeed table I had because it was giant, it was a absolute catch all of everything. So plus I like having like nice shop furniture that's not gonna be valued on my inventory list. So when I have a shop fire, I don't get to replace it.
John Doyle (46:49.408) Priceless. Priceless shut. Yeah, irreplaceable.
Logan (46:53.314) Priceless. Yes. Yeah.
Phil Huber (46:53.5) Right, yeah, priceless, yeah, no price on it. Yep, Well, like I said earlier, last week I did a presentation and a workshop for the Central Indiana Woodworkers Group based around Indianapolis, which they draw from the whole metro area. So they have some people making some pretty significant drives out to their group club meetings. Had a lot of fun out there. Their club is...
extremely well run, great group of people out there. And then we did a, I did a presentation on router jigs, my favorite shop built router jigs. And then the next morning did a very fast workshop on using one of those jigs, the adjustable finger joint jig to make a kind of a stickly inspired mantle clock. we kind of blasted through some technique on that and some skills and had a
lot of fun with that group. Personally, I've been working on my desk again had to took a little break from it because of woodworking in America and magazine and Sweden, Denmark tour, blah, blah, blah. Fill in excuses. Today, I'm going to be shooting a video on installing the diamond bead molding that I'm doing along the waist, the sides of the desk got one set put in.
for the after kind of, and then we'll do the video on the technique for installing that. So looking forward to that. And then my shot built knockdown workbench also was drawing some interest during woodworking in America. And one of the questions came up about putting casters on it. So I thought, why not? Let's give it a shot. So I popped off the Lego levelers and ordered some casters and
We'll do that on a quick video too. I'd like to have that in my workshop. And for those who have seen videos of my workshop, it's a small space, but because of that, anything that I add to it needs to be on wheels so that I can move it around. So there you go. That's what's going on here. And then the other thing is for that trip to Indiana, I had put a bunch of stuff in a blue tool chest that I made.
Phil Huber (49:18.546) talked about last episode, and it definitely needs some organization, because I had stuff just kind of rattling around in there. Little things that get filtered down to the bottom that you can't find and think that you lost, and then come to find out later on that no, you did not lose it. It was just buried in the bottom. So I think I'm going to go with some kind of a small tool rack on one end of the chest, and then
several sliding slash lift out trays that will be agnostic enough for putting stuff in but still provide a little bit of structure to the inside of the case. And I'll post some stuff about that as we go along.
Phil Huber (50:05.51) Last words anybody? Questions? Comments?
Logan (50:09.214) Scoop dog poop in flip flops or you're bound to have a *****y day.
Yeah.
Phil Huber (50:16.54) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Logan (50:18.306) From Fletcher.
Phil Huber (50:19.667) Yep. Wisdom of the Ancients right there, spoken from the mouths of babes. Thanks for listening to the Shop Notes podcast. The Shop Notes podcast is a production of Active Interest Media. Nate Gruca is the editor on it and John Doyle is Woodsmith's digital editor. We will see you next week, everybody. Bye.
