ShopNotes Podcast 270 — It's All About the Churn

Metalworking Tools

The bulk of this week's episode addresses Logan's shop changes — both recent and over the life of the construction and launch of this space. It's been a lot of fun to discuss it on the podcast. Recently, he moved his metalworking tools to another space to keep the wood and metal parts of his hobbies separate.

Woodsmith Shop TV Show Planning

Additionally, John and Logan helped me put together the schedule and breakdown of an upcoming filming for an episode of the show. After 20 years, we have the process down. And since it's really just Logan and I, we can scratch out the plan in the dirt and go.

Here's the project we're doing. It's a sweet two-part table. Nice little side table for a chair. But the top lifts off and works on its own as a serving tray. I mean you could just make the tray portion.

It should come as no surprise that Logan will turn the top. The plans will cover making the top with a router trammel.

Transcript

Phil Huber (02:22.375) Welcome back everybody. It's time for another episode of the ShopNotes Podcast. I'm Phil. It's episode number 270. John and Logan are with me today and we're going to get some updates on progress in the Woodsmith Shop season 20 working on some fun new projects today. We're also going to do something we haven't done in a while, which is check in with Logan on his shop.

as it continues to grow and evolve and change and do all the things that it needs to do. Other than transform and roll out, I think we got more and more yet to come. You'll want to stick around. Don't forget, we're going to have viewer and listener comments, questions, and smart remarks. Thanks for listening, everybody. Here we go.

Phil Huber (03:14.027) All right, let's check in with last episode's comments. We had talked about leather working as we have that as a shop project for a TV show that we're working on. I'm doing a chisel roll, decided to do that. And it was one of those things, like for you especially, Logan had noted that that one,

can very easily turn from side quest into full on hobby.

Logan Wittmer (03:49.126) Mm-hmm.

Phil Huber (03:52.36) And you had brought up, what was the site? Leatherplans.com? Diesel Punk, yeah. So I went and checked that out and that is indeed a very, very dangerous sort of site. Cause it's like, he has plans for that? Like that looks-

Logan Wittmer (03:56.475) Yeah, diesel punk. Yep.

Logan Wittmer (04:12.497) Yeah, and the designs are like spot on too. It's not like, it's not like, okay, that looks like a 1970s, you know, purse that I'm sewing together with a Hobby Lobby kit. No offense to Hobby Lobby. But like, they're nice. Like, you would see that walk in the streets of, you know, Milan or whatever.

Phil Huber (04:27.105) Ha

Phil Huber (04:37.439) Right. And I was kind of surprised at the range of patterns.

Logan Wittmer (04:43.695) Yeah.

Phil Huber (04:45.569) because he's got like leather bags, wallets, shoes, all sorts of backpacks and messenger bags. Kind of gets into masks and like cosplay stuff, which was...

Phil Huber (05:04.905) all kinds of fun stuff. Anyway.

So we had a couple of comments related to that. Extra hobby, curious, advocation for the woodworker for me would be leather work and stained glass. Yeah, I can see that's another one too. He also said, I'm guessing using leather to line the bottom of boxes and drawers would be fancy. And yes, I think that would be really cool. We were actually, one of the projects we were looking at for the

that we did for the TV show that accessory box, John, had leather in it, I believe, right?

John Doyle (05:44.288) yeah. I believe so. Yeah.

Phil Huber (05:50.018) Bony Board Woodshop says, I have turned a few bowls from Bradford pear, Bradford pear, and my parents have some decent sized Cleveland pear trees that look similar to Bradford pear. Maybe one has to fall over in the name of science. I believe the Cleveland pear is another version of the Bradford slash calorie pear that are causing problems. So maybe, maybe they all need to fall.

Logan Wittmer (06:08.752) I believe the Cleveland pair is another version of the Bradford slash Calorie pair that are causing problems. maybe, maybe they all need to fall.

Bot Dad says a side project that turned into a thing for him is 3D printing, especially the design aspect.

Logan Wittmer (07:17.98) See that's funny because that's like not where I go with a 3d printing. I don't get into the design I just get into the pressing print button.

Phil Huber (07:27.338) Okay.

Logan Wittmer (07:28.673) So, I mean, I have done some of the design, like, yeah, you could absolutely go down that rabbit hole. The next step, bot dad, is getting into like CNC programming. So you could do like, like machining, CNC machining, because you're not very far removed from that with 3D modeling and 3D design like that.

Phil Huber (07:56.194) Huh, really? That's true.

Logan Wittmer (07:57.902) Yeah, because at that point, that point you're basically getting it into a G code writing software to program your tool paths and stuff. So you could get real crazy real quick, bot dad. Not saying you should, but I'm not saying you shouldn't either.

Phil Huber (08:08.866) Yeah, yeah.

John Doyle (08:20.897) I think he should. Get crazy.

Phil Huber (08:26.092) I mean, just because they're adjacent here, Ben Strano, our buddy over at Fine Woodworking just did a 3D printing for woodworkers e-learning course that I think would be a really cool one. Cause I know Ben has gone deep end on Fusion 360 for designing all kinds of stuff and being able to take existing designs and to tweak them.

Logan Wittmer (08:48.378) Mm-hmm.

Phil Huber (08:55.816) and adjust them to match your own needs, which would be kind cool.

Logan Wittmer (08:59.445) And the most recent issue of Fine Worker magazine has an article from Ben on that. Or in it. Yeah, about 3D printing. just showed up a couple days ago to my house.

Phil Huber (09:05.114) does it really?

Phil Huber (09:10.154) it did. Huh. I will have to keep an eye out over there on my mailbox for that. Cool. All right. Well, there you go. 3D printing. Definitely.

Logan Wittmer (09:14.508) Yeah.

Phil Huber (09:24.765) Uh, JPN 533 says side project that has not become a thing yet, but threatens to is turning.

Logan Wittmer (09:35.22) Mm-hmm.

Phil Huber (09:35.316) Again, another one that Logan can attest to.

Phil Huber (09:46.252) Puppy Doc Bob says, how do we get Harold to succumb to the peer pressure like some of the rest of us? I mean, think of the trouble he and Harold could get into on the tour. Definitely true. Unfortunately, Harold also writes that he's going to have to miss out on the tour because it's harvest season. And in spite of John's offer, he doesn't think that John has what it takes.

John Doyle (10:08.205) No.

Logan Wittmer (10:16.617) That hurts.

John Doyle (10:18.423) bang. It's hurtful but deserved. Yeah. I just have that look. I'm too soft.

Phil Huber (10:20.151) Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (10:25.079) You

Phil Huber (10:27.552) Right. Yeah.

Phil Huber (10:34.028) Who knows? All right. As always, we thrive on your questions, comments, and smart remarks, whether you want to send those in on our podcast YouTube channel, Shop Notes Podcast. You can find us there. Subscribe, like, do all the things to help us get the word out, or send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com.

Phil Huber (11:06.326) Now, one of the things that has driven the success of this show over the years is that we launched into the podcast pretty much right as COVID hit. So people were stuck inside and needed something to do. So they listened to the show. In addition, Logan decided to build what was supposed to be, I don't know, a six month shop build.

Logan Wittmer (11:35.676) Hehehehe

Phil Huber (11:37.302) that has now, we're approximately almost six years into our six month project shop build here.

Logan Wittmer (11:44.882) Well, I mean, you're not wrong.

When did I break ground on the shop? I don't even remember.

John Doyle (11:53.56) feel like it was, was it 21 or 22? It seems like it was well after all of the COVID materials inflation happened and like you got a bid pre COVID and then post COVID and it was a big difference.

Logan Wittmer (11:58.525) Oosay.

Logan Wittmer (12:03.355) It was. Yeah, it was well after that.

Phil Huber (12:05.154) Because I you were.

Phil Huber (12:11.436) Right.

Logan Wittmer (12:14.548) Yeah, sorry, Cat is wanting to be on the microphone, so he's rubbing his face on it. This day three years ago, I did pick up my Crescent bandsaw, so that was then. It was, yeah, just judging by, okay, here we go. So we did the shop floor June of 23 is when we did the epoxy.

Phil Huber (12:28.322) That was three years already? Wow.

Logan Wittmer (12:44.155) floor. So, yeah.

Phil Huber (12:45.32) epoxy part, okay.

John Doyle (12:47.181) So did you start the previous fall on the building?

Logan Wittmer (12:51.035) Yeah, I, the building was like five months old when we did the floor. Maybe a little older than that, yeah, like, because I framed over winter. So I would have started fall of 22. So yeah, like three and a half years later, right? So putting it in perspective, it's not that bad that I'm still changing stuff.

Phil Huber (13:12.244) Okay. Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (13:21.903) And if anybody could have like an insight into the state of my mind and you would be impressed how far I've like, you'd be impressed that I'm able to get anything done with how much crap's bouncing around in my head.

John Doyle (13:36.589) A lot of open tabs.

Logan Wittmer (13:38.002) There's so many open tabs!

Phil Huber (13:44.834) I mean, we talked about like four or five of them just in responding to comments from.

Phil Huber (13:51.732) last week's podcast. I think what it does and we, people who have listened to this for a long time will know that we've talked about a workshop being sort of a living thing that you're never really done with it, even if you have a fixed space for it, that you're, you're growing as a woodworker. So your tools and projects might be changing over time. And then as such, that means your layout is going to change.

Logan Wittmer (14:04.251) Yeah.

Phil Huber (14:22.326) you know, you're going to see stuff that you want to upgrade or things that you're going to want to swap out. All of that kind of stuff. And I think being able to see your shop go from design options that we've talked about on here through all of its delays, frustrations, iterations, and whatever, like shows that on a, on a compressed scale that

Logan Wittmer (14:42.693) Mm-hmm.

Logan Wittmer (14:48.603) For sure.

Phil Huber (14:51.5) that really shows that really, you know, like don't feel like you have to nail it because you're, you're sort of never going to do that.

Logan Wittmer (14:59.224) and it's always okay to change stuff.

Phil Huber (15:01.346) And it's always okay to change stuff. speaking of changes, why don't you give us the story on the latest set of changes.

Logan Wittmer (15:10.704) Well, so I mentioned that my long-term goal was to move the metalworking stuff out of here. Originally the goal was to have the metalworking stuff in here, but then I realized that's not a good idea because I got lots of crap. Like I have a lot of stuff. So like it just kind of makes, like if it was just me in here working, like free time or building furniture, you know, as living, no problem.

But like when you bring video crew in here, when you have cameras and lights and stuff, the more crap there is, the more crap you have to work around. So we have a three stall garage. It's an oversized three stall garage, but it's an L-shaped garage, kind of. So if you're standing there looking at our house, you have one stall straight ahead of you, and then there's two stalls to the left.

My wife parks in the two stalls to the left. The single stall has, for the last nine years, been storage. So it has had, it had like a giant storage rack, kind of like a Menards Lumber Rack style in there.

that had totes on it. have binders full of woodworking magazines back from when I subscribed to Shop Notes and Pop Wood. There's just all that crap up there. I had some random taxidermy forms up there, three deer and a bear form for some reason.

So like, it just had a lot of crap in it. I've also had Stacks of Lumber in there since they came out of the kiln maybe a year ago. So I had some Sycamore in there and I had some White Oak in there. As well as a lot of like, I'm gonna call it the Logan Reserve Lumber. So like.

Logan Wittmer (17:05.301) really nice pieces of curly maple or like, you know, crotch sections of walnut that I had cut off and kind of stowed away for something. So I don't know why. have like, I have no idea why this weekend was the weekend for me to do this.

But it was. like Saturday, all day long, I was just moving crap. I was moving, I moved so much crap out of that garage. And like, this is, this is a single stall garage. It's a single stall attached to the two stall, if that makes sense. But it's oversized. It's 18 feet wide and like 33 feet long. So it's more or less a two stall garage. And it was full.

There was so much stuff in there. It was an embarrassment how much stuff was in there. So I spent Saturday moving, throwing away, giving stuff away. I gave away those taxidermy forms. I gave away maybe 24 fishing rods, a bunch of fishing nets. It's just stuff like I just want to go on at this point, right?

Phil Huber (18:18.796) So it was really like your own private episode of Storage Wars? Is that what you're telling me?

John Doyle (18:23.277) you

Logan Wittmer (18:23.372) Yeah, kind of yeah kind of like there was There was a few things in there. I was like I forgot I had that Like not gonna lie so anyways Long story short Got all that done Sunday. I started to move the Metalworking machines out of the shop into that single stall So currently

I have in the single stall, which is now I'm referring to as the metal shop, is the Walker Turner radial arm drill press, the vertical mill, the machinist tool cabinet has all the vertical mill accessories in it, the two bench vise.

stands that I built. I think we did that on, did do that on a TV episode or was that just a YouTube video or I don't remember, was it?

John Doyle (19:26.145) I think it's just YouTube.

Phil Huber (19:26.828) YouTube, I think we did that for Woodworking Essentials.

Logan Wittmer (19:30.812) Okay, so I did that. So those are in there. Air compressor, two welders, the metal lathe, and the only thing that is, and the arbor press is in there, the hydraulic press. I don't know if I want to bring like the anvil and like blacksmithing stuff up there or not. That seems like something I don't really want next to the house, but we'll see.

The thing to really go up in that space is the, I have that south bend, there's a fill gun. The south bend workbench. Workbench, it was a table for the south bend lathe. But yeah, that south bend workbench is the last thing to go up there. And then that is all the metalworking stuff out of this shop.

I may move some cabinets and stuff up there, but I'm not sure yet. It's just, is main, the main thing, as I said, was to get the space back. But the other thing is metal and wood stuff doesn't really blend well together.

metal shavings, they can stain wood, they very easily get compressed into fibers and stuff like that. So, you know what, it makes sense to have it separated.

John Doyle (21:07.277) Yeah, you're going to have all kinds of room for activities now. So it's going be nice. Oh, I figured. I figured it'd fill up quickly. But.

Logan Wittmer (21:10.744) space is already taken, John, don't worry.

Logan Wittmer (21:16.892) what, and this, my plan was like always to, well, the other thing I did is I sold my Woodpecker's router table that I had. I had mentioned how I wanted just to go to the Shaper because that's what I use 90 % of the time. The Woodpecker's router table doesn't get used. I use my little Woodpecker's router table all the time, but not the big one. So I sold that last night. a guy drove up from Arkansas to get it.

Yeah, I'm like, dude, long ways. And he beat me up on price too. But I'm like, hey, if you're gonna drive six and a half hours to get it, go for it, man. So I moved the Axiom CNC over against the wall where the vertical mill was. And what else did I move over there? I had a cart that had the two lasers on it.

the one from Omtec and Smart Laser. So those are all over there. They all run off the computer. So like I have the computer hooked up to the Axiom. So it makes sense to put the lasers next to that because everything's there running off that one computer then I don't have to get my computer hooked up to it and stuff like that. So yeah, it is much easier access now to the dust collector which is actually really nice.

even though I lifted that dust collector to the ceiling, getting to that barrel with the metal lathe there wasn't necessarily a metal lathe, was all the crap I had piled around the metal lathe. It was kind of a trick to, it was a six point turn to get the round barrel out. So, but yeah, it's super nice to have the room. I can't say much more about that than that. It's just super nice.

But what it has done is it's been like, even with taking up that space with the CNC and the lasers and stuff, there is still a significant amount more space in there.

Logan Wittmer (23:27.607) or in that area than there was. Now I'm like, what else can I do to get a little more space? Because this is kind of nice. So I'm looking at my planer. I'm like, I could go to a different planer that is a smaller foot, but that doesn't really give me much space. you know, just kind of, leads to the next evolution.

Phil Huber (23:50.357) Well, A, it's springtime, so spring cleaning feels a little natural there. And B, I think you're right. There is a hesitancy to want to get rid of stuff until you get started on it. And then there is a snowball effect, I believe, that happens where it becomes a lot easier to get rid of things that you may have thought you had a stronger attachment to.

Logan Wittmer (24:16.227) Well, like, and my wife knows this and it drives her nuts. It's one of the many things about me that drives her nuts. I love getting rid of stuff. Like, I don't know why. I love getting stuff, but I love getting rid of stuff too. I like just to be like, hi, bye. You know? So it's like, it is, it really, and I don't know why. But yeah, it's one of those things where I'm like, okay. It's just.

Phil Huber (24:35.753) It's all about the churn for Logan.

John Doyle (24:38.945) Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (24:46.005) It's so, it is nice, as you said, spring cleaning. It's like, okay, I had a Kevlar canoe in the garage I bought seven years ago, never touched water. Like, probably not gonna use it. Gone. So.

John Doyle (25:07.521) That kid was kind of doing the same thing in my garage the last weekend too. It's just, and during the winter I'm not out there much. So it becomes kind of a pass through like dumping zone. And yeah, there was a lot of either recycling stuff or getting rid of stuff or just putting it away, putting it up and can almost see the top of my workbench and cabinets now. So it's getting there. So yeah.

Logan Wittmer (25:32.342) Yeah.

Phil Huber (25:34.635) All right, cool.

Logan Wittmer (25:37.535) Yeah, I think what actually started this entire thing was the absolute mountain of cardboard boxes that were in the garage.

Phil Huber (25:46.239) I was wondering, because I thought that was your space where you keep your burn pile of cardboard boxes.

Logan Wittmer (25:51.361) It is. And honestly, I for the last maybe three weeks, four weeks, there was cardboard boxes in there from Christmas still. Like there's been that long. But it's been so windy for the last couple months and it's been so dry that I don't want to burn when it's windy or dry. So it was like, Saturday, it's actually, it had just rained the week before.

It was not windy. I'm like, let's frickin go. So we just started making a bonfire.

Phil Huber (26:36.095) So when you...

Phil Huber (26:40.331) When you were first planning your shop, you had talked about the fact that because of the space that you had available, having some sort of metalworking component was going to be important for you in the sense that

Like you make custom hardware or tools or things like, or fixing up tools because you also do that, you know, where you have, right, or modifying existing tools, that kind of, that kind of stuff. So maybe walk us through a little bit of the progression where that goes from just a handful of tools to something where it turns into its own dedicated space.

Logan Wittmer (27:10.227) That's the main, yeah, that was the main thing, yep.

Logan Wittmer (27:32.811) think that I have for most people I think you get away with one or two tools I just happen to stumble into all of these tools where I'm like okay yeah like either I bought I bought them at an absolutely like can't say no price also how I get a Kevlar canoe

But like, it's one of those things like, okay, in high school we used metal lathes. Let me back up. We'd use metal lathes in high school. When I got into turning, I thought it was cool that you could turn brass and aluminum.

stuff. It's like, that'd be really cool to be able to turn stainless steel and stuff like that, right? So it's like, I think there's a progression there from the woodworking side to the metal turning side. Because I think that's, I mean, that's a pretty easy progression. But in high school, we had a Bridgeport vertical mill and knee mill. had metal lathe's, did all that. My dad's work when I was growing up always had one going there mess around off

it with him on the weekends if I wanted. So it was always like, okay yeah as I'm working with these old vintage tools there's crap that's broke. Like you can't just order parts for most of these things. Some of them you can, but not most of them. So it's like the easiest thing to do is just to make the part that you need, right?

great examples that Moac joiner as we were working on that head the freaking thing kept binding up and like to the point where it's like so frustrating that I realized it was it was the the cover on the bearing block was like a couple thousandths too tight so it's like well

Logan Wittmer (29:38.138) I have a vertical mill, I got a fly cutter, let's go. And I can fix it. So it's like for the price that I paid for that vertical mill, so I paid 500 bucks for that vertical mill from a friend of mine. This was the friends and family, that was me telling my friend, I'm paying you for this.

and he said, fine, you can give me 500 bucks for it. And it was an absolute rock bottom price. That's like three hours of machine time at a machine shop here in Des Moines. So that's kind of where I'm like, okay.

If I have the ability and I'm not by any means a machinist, like I'm I would never if somebody handed me a CAD drawing I can read it but I'm not going to be able to say yep I can hit that within a thousandth's tolerance because nope I'm not machinist. Like I know enough to be dangerous not enough to hit tolerances repeatably right. But in my mind it's like okay if I can

buy a vertical mill for 500 bucks, let's just say. And I know that I'm gonna use it four or five times a year, total of 10 hours, let's say. If I'm gonna do 10 hours worth of work at a machine shop, I'm gonna pay three times the amount that I just put into that vertical mill. Plus I have a skill I'm learning.

and then if Phil's like, hey, I have a pulley off my bandsaw that we need to change the size on, cool, let's do it. You know what I mean? So that's always kind of been my mentality is it's like, yeah, I could pay somebody else to do it. And.

Logan Wittmer (31:27.833) At this point in my life, I do that more than I ever have because there's some things I just don't have time for and I just would rather pay somebody to do it. But something like that, like, yeah, I would rather do that. So that's the vertical mill. The metal lathe is a, I think, a very logical progression and a sister tool to that vertical mill. There's a lot of things you can do on each machine that they share common ground. You can put milling attachments on

South Bend lathes, like South Bend made milling attachments for them. You can do some form of turning stuff on a vertical mill, but they definitely have their own space, they're complimentary tools. And then, you know, after John and I sat here for two hours beating bearings onto a cutter head, I went and bought the hydraulic press, because I'm like, this is dumb.

So, you know, there are certain things that Harbor Freight is really good for. So, yeah, mean, you know, it's one of those things. Like, I also have a... I have...

ideas of things I would like to do or build. So like having those tools accessible and again, this goes to my ADHD where I can't concentrate on more than one thing at once or at a time and.

I'm constantly scrolling through Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist and stuff and it's like, that's a really good price on that tool. Like, I better buy it because I think in 10 years I'm gonna have it used for it. How I have my two welders. So, you know, it's just those things. I don't know.

John Doyle (33:15.041) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny the rationalizations that we make to get tools, because it's like, well, I could go buy a kitchen table or I could buy a table saw and make a kitchen table and it's cheaper. And then you just kind of work through the progression of getting tools like that, you know, that way. So, yeah. So, yes, exactly.

Logan Wittmer (33:35.447) Yeah, you're mansplaining it to yourself. You're man-maffing.

John Doyle (33:41.792) So, or like what you were saying, like seeing tools for a price that you just can't pass. Cause it's like, well, I can, know I can buy that. And if I never use it, I can sell it for the same amount or more. Cause it's so cheap. It's such a good deal. I'm not going to lose money on it and it would be fun to have for a little bit. So.

Logan Wittmer (33:52.129) That's yes.

Logan Wittmer (33:56.107) Yeah.

Yeah, again, that's always been, I have never, let me think about how I wanna phrase this to where it doesn't seem like I'm taking advantage of people, because that's not my, I never buy a tool that I won't be able to make money on, I guess. If somebody has, and I don't negotiate tools, so I don't, don't.

If somebody has a welder listed for 500 bucks, I'm going to pay 500 bucks if that's what they have it listed for. But if I know I can get 750 out of that welder, I've got to whet my beak a little,

John Doyle (34:35.415) Right. Yeah. You're providing a service, you know, you're, you're a tool mover.

Logan Wittmer (34:38.974) Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

Phil Huber (34:45.26) Like I said, it's all about the churn. You just got to keep it going.

Logan Wittmer (34:47.783) Hehehehehe

Phil Huber (34:50.262) I mean, to a certain extent also, you have admittedly a soft spot for large vintage machines. And a lot of times like

Logan Wittmer (35:00.02) 100%.

Phil Huber (35:04.554) Not a lot of times, if there aren't, knowing that there's a bunch of people like you, you're getting a tool almost as a caretaker role in it too, that this could either go to scrap and just get recycled, or we can hold on to a very viable machine that either you will put to use or somebody else will be able to put to use and either have it as part of a really fun hobby.

Logan Wittmer (35:14.247) Yes.

Phil Huber (35:34.204) or the foundation of a small maker kind of thing.

Logan Wittmer (35:40.328) Very much so, that is absolutely nailing it on the head. I'm sure it somebody being super poetic talking about it, but it's like, you know, these vintage tools, we are just caretakers for our time being, right? It's like, okay, like turd.

John Doyle (35:57.665) you

Logan Wittmer (36:02.523) Like, yeah, I get what you're saying because like my MOAC joiner, it's 50 years older than I am, right? So like, yeah, I'm just, I guess it's just, it's living with me until I die and then it's going to somebody else, hopefully.

so fun to use. Like the guy that stopped out to buy that woodpecker router table last night, we fired up the Moac and ran some wood over it and I'm like, you just have to smile. It's like, my god, this is amazing.

Phil Huber (36:37.943) yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, I mean, you and I had talked about before you got the vertical mill of having seen Adam Savage's channel where he's got a vertical mill and he uses it for all kinds of nonsense. You know, it's just a super versatile tool. And I think probably in many ways, some of the tools that you've gotten has allowed you to do stuff that you probably wouldn't even have thought of.

Logan Wittmer (36:58.566) Yeah.

Phil Huber (37:07.593) either getting in to fix or attempting on your own as a new project, so to speak, without it.

Logan Wittmer (37:12.881) Yeah. Or they would just be done at a much cruder level. You know what I mean? like, one of the things that I did with the vertical mill while it was in this shop, my Emart pattern maker's vice had a chip out of the job and it's fine. They chip. It's not a big deal, right? But it's like, oh, I can actually clean that up a little bit on the vertical mill.

Phil Huber (37:19.165) Okay. Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (37:42.658) Initially when I bought that Emmer vice my thought was okay I'll just take an angled grinder and kind of clean it just grind it away and clean it up make it not look so ragged make it look a little bit more intentional but I'm like here actually I can I can do that like I can I can put a

know, dial indicator on it, I can make it actually a true, like nice cut on it. And I did that. So it's like, like, yeah, that's sometimes having the right tool is worth it. You know, like there's ways to do stuff and none of them are wrong, but sometimes the right tool is just the better way.

Phil Huber (38:33.886) It makes me think, we just recently sent out an issue of Woodsmith and in it, Chris was talking about metalworking tools and he's got an article in there. I think I brought this up in a previous episode that...

was, I think is one of the better articles in that issue. Just the way he was approaching metalworking tools. Because I think there's a...

It's really easy to look at something like a hacksaw or cold chisels as rough crude tools. And he was taking the approach of, these are actually tools that you can do fine work with it. It's all in your approach to the tool. anyway, if you're a subscriber to Woodsmith, make sure you check that one out. think it's pretty cool. I don't know. Did you get to read that one, John?

Logan Wittmer (39:18.649) Mm-hmm.

John Doyle (39:29.767) I have, no, I don't think I read that one. I think I read every other one, but not that one. So I look forward to getting that in my mailbox.

Phil Huber (39:32.49) Okay. Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (39:40.042) Yeah

Phil Huber (39:40.779) you

John Doyle (39:43.373) I'll do the book report next time.

Phil Huber (39:44.95) Perfect. Here we go. Yep.

Phil Huber (39:51.798) John, what's going on in your world? What tabs are open for you?

John Doyle (39:58.038) Yeah, like you said, doing the leatherworking show. So kind of bored this week with I don't have to make any wood parts really. So looking ahead to I you know what I could I could be. But it's only it's only Wednesday, right? You know, that's a that's a Friday thing to start freaking out about what what's what are we doing next week? So yeah, what what what the what project are we going to do?

Logan Wittmer (40:08.235) mean, you could be starting on next week's show.

Logan Wittmer (40:17.165) That's fair. Yeah, we have the whole weekend. Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (40:27.691) Did do the arbor?

John Doyle (40:28.255) Next. Are we doing the arbor next or the serving tray table? What do you guys think? Dealers choice.

Phil Huber (40:32.844) serving tray.

Logan Wittmer (40:38.733) I have wood for the serving tray. Yeah.

Phil Huber (40:40.288) Right, here we go. This section of the, do you really? What were you gonna do the serving tray out of?

John Doyle (40:43.159) There you go

Logan Wittmer (40:49.101) I got a really nice piece of ash that's already cut round that's almost perfect size for that top.

Phil Huber (40:56.172) So do we do like a flip-flop? Because right now the original one had an ash base and a cherry top. So do like a ash top and like walnut or cherry for the base? Yeah? All right.

John Doyle (40:56.429) Because what is the, yeah, I was gonna say it's ash legs.

Logan Wittmer (41:04.686) yeah.

John Doyle (41:09.783) Yeah, flip it.

Phil Huber (41:13.708) All right. Right.

John Doyle (41:13.953) My job's done. Now I'm looking ahead to two weeks from now. Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Huber (41:18.614) This is how we do stuff on the Shop Notes podcast. You get to see live, I mean recorded, but real time planning for a TV show episode and the amount of effort that we frankly put in sometimes on it.

Logan Wittmer (41:25.445) real time. Yeah.

John Doyle (41:26.679) Yeah.

And yeah, 30 seconds of planning. That's what it is.

Logan Wittmer (41:34.867) I'm so, yep, I'm so glad our management doesn't watch this show. Geez, Louise.

John Doyle (41:40.437) Yeah, we would be cooked.

Phil Huber (41:43.564) 20 years of experience allows us to be able to boil this. This is like watching maple syrup get made.

John Doyle (41:49.58) Yeah. Yeah. The TV show in this podcast are alike because it's all in the editing. It's like, we're just, we're just winging it here. They're going to fix it all on post.

Logan Wittmer (41:51.837) Yep. my god.

Phil Huber (41:57.066) Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (41:57.264) Yeah

Logan Wittmer (42:03.143) We make their jobs so much harder.

John Doyle (42:06.091) Yeah, they hate us and we deserve it.

Logan Wittmer (42:09.577) Yep. For real.

Phil Huber (42:14.956) All right, season 20 of the Woodsmith Shop coming out later this fall in 2026, early 2027, where you can watch the results of what just happened here in seeing that serving tray table go out the door. We're gonna do a little twist though on that serving tray, because the serving tray we had has a round top that...

Logan Wittmer (42:22.61) Mm-hmm.

Phil Huber (42:43.948) Did Chris design it or Dylan? Dylan did it. Made round with router trammels and bearing guided bits or whatever. Logan says, nope, he's turning it.

Logan Wittmer (42:45.706) Dylan, Dylan did.

Logan Wittmer (42:57.29) Not today, Satan.

Phil Huber (42:59.052) Yeah, so turnt top and then a three legged base where we have to do all kinds of stuff, not at 90 degrees. It'll be a pretty cool episode. I think it was a cool project. I got to write that one and it was fun to watch Mark fight with all the different parts.

Logan Wittmer (43:02.196) Yep.

Logan Wittmer (43:18.718) I say those are usually the ones that we would just hand off to Chris on a TV show and just have full confidence in them.

Phil Huber (43:24.733) Right. Yeah. Where he'd just be like, I'm just going to cut this round at the bandsaw and it's going to be round anyway. So I don't know why you need a trammel.

John Doyle (43:25.589) Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (43:31.162) Yep. Yep.

Yeah. You know, speaking of which, okay, that just made me think of something. There was somebody, and I don't remember who it was. If I wasn't lazy, I could go back through all of our episodes and figure out who it was. Somebody had asked me for my contact for carbide tip bandsaw blades. Whoever that was, let me know. Because I got them back.

Phil Huber (43:50.952) okay.

Logan Wittmer (43:59.216) So I, no lady, her name is Gloria. Gloria's getting me prices on a bunch of blades right now. So if you want some, you have to let me know and I'll get sizes and prices.

John Doyle (43:59.374) It's got a guy.

Phil Huber (44:14.22) All right. There you go. Making connections on the shop notes podcast. As for me, I've been working away on a set of frames, craftsman style frames in my shop using some, I don't know if salvaged was the right word because it was oak that was milled from upper peninsula of Michigan, but has been sitting in a garage for the last 40 plus years.

And so it has some connection for a friend of mine to his family property and a sawmill that his dad ran for a while. But I'm reworking those boards. were all apparently Big Jer is holding on to the really prime oak. So this was like all the center cut here in Iowa. When you say center cut, that's the choice stuff. But when you're talking about center cut on red oak,

Logan Wittmer (45:04.934) Yeah

Yeah.

Phil Huber (45:14.495) You got like the pith and some splitting and all kinds of nonsense. So I'm working around that, all the splits. It's kind of fun to work with because the oak has oxidized. So it's basically just black on the outside and cleaning all of that up and then cutting away parts that have split under or had decayed a little bit to get some really reveal some really fun red oak in there. So.

Logan Wittmer (45:18.955) All the splits. God.

Phil Huber (45:44.349) Anyway, I hope to show some projects on that. A lot of bandsaw work. So I've been thinking about at the last woodworking in America, we had Wilbur Pan there, who you normally think of with Japanese tools, but he is also a bandsaw aficionado and was talking to me about getting a larger motor pulley for my bandsaw to speed up the

the blade speed. So going from essentially like 3000 surface feet per minute to 4000.

So I'm considering doing that because there's a place that offers that pulley for like 22 bucks. So I was thinking about doing that just to.

Logan Wittmer (46:32.526) I so excited because I thought I found you a pulley in my pile of parts. It's a six inch though, it's exactly you have. Yeah.

Phil Huber (46:36.844) yeah?

Phil Huber (46:40.541) yeah, because the the.

The I don't know what you call that, the wheel, lower wheel pulley is six inches. And then the motor pulley, let's see, I'm just pulling it out. It's Itura Design has the catalog and talks about upgrading it. So it would be, the motor pulley has a four inch pitch diameter.

Phil Huber (47:09.215) with a 5 1⁄8 inch bore on it. So anyway, if I end up doing that, I'll post that as well. But that also means that what I should do is upgrade and replace the bearings on my drill press, which I've had for a while now and still need to do.

Logan Wittmer (47:30.915) If you need an arbor press or if you need hydraulic press, just let me know.

Phil Huber (47:31.563) John Doyle (47:32.717) Yeah. Or I could just peen the whole thing with the sledgehammer. Yeah.

Logan Wittmer (47:36.131) Again, just have to have a friend that has the entire thing.

Phil Huber (47:41.333) Right, yep, woodworking. It's about tools and community. Just bringing us all together.

Logan Wittmer (47:45.686) Yeah.

Phil Huber (47:50.207) That's it for another episode of the Shop Notes podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or smart remarks, we want to hear it. You can do that by subscribing to and commenting on our YouTube channel, Shop Notes podcast, or you can send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com. yeah, the Shop Notes podcast is produced by Nate Gruca. He's our editor.

brings this all together, makes us sound well as good as you can hear on here. So we appreciate Nate's work on that. And to all the folk at Active Interest Media, thank you for subscribing to Woodsmith, Woodsmith Unlimited, Popular Woodworking, and Pop Wood Plus. We'll see you next week, everybody. Bye.