Winter is for Shop Projects
My shop gets crazy in the lead up to Christmas. As much as I try to get a headstart on projects, some often linger (or don't get started) until late into December.
The upside to all that project building is that I learn about my process and needs for the workshop. So that once the slower pace of the new year sets in, I can put things back in order and make some upgrades for my workspace.
One of my first projects is this sawhorse. I already have a pair to the original design. These have proven to be ideal in a small shop and play a wide variety of roles from assembly table, to sit-and-think resting spot. While doing some carving, I wanted the same size sawhorse, just in a more stout package. So I made one that doubles up the thickness of the ends and swaps in a thick oak top. I call it the Clydesdale sawhorse.
Logan has a sawhorse scheme of his own. He's looking at a post-and-rung version that is mostly turned. I'll be interested to see where it ends up.
Projects to Build
We talked about some listener and personal projects upcoming. Here are a couple I mentioned. Here's a shoe bench that John designed recently. And Dillon worked up this turntable cabinet that has a fun vibe.
Remember, you can get access to these plans and more as a Woodsmith Unlimited Member.
Transcript
How many times does the transcript use "yeah?"
Phil Huber (00:11.392) It's that time again, everybody. It's the ShopNotes Podcast. I'm Phil with Logan and John on another episode talking about woodworking behind the scenes at the Woodsmith Shop, Popular Woodworking and Woodsmith. And we got a pretty good show for you today. Good conversations. And we're going to start as always with a sponsor message. This episode of the shop notes podcast is brought to you by the subscribers to woodsmith and popular.
woodworking magazines, as well as those who are members of Popwood Plus and Woodsmith Unlimited. It's what you do that makes all of this possible. depending on who you are in commenting on our podcasts, you owe everybody an apology for making us do this week after week, subjecting the internet to what goes on right here.
Speaking of comments, that's where we're going to get started on today's episode with some comments from last week's. We were talking about projects that we have upcoming for this year and a few other things. So almost perfection rights. I have quite a few projects on the list and first up is probably a shoe storage bench for my sister. I think that's a good one. That's a nice practical one.
We did I don't know if you have a design already almost perfection, but we have a couple of them on plans, woodsmith plans, I'll maybe post a post a link to one of them in the show notes page.
Phil Huber (01:55.544) DP Meyer says, my wife and I visited the Art Institute of Chicago, a must see, if only to see Nighthawks, American Gothic, and A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of Ferris Bueller fame, and many more famous works of art. My wife got on my case for sometimes being more interested in the frame construction than the actual paintings. By the way, lots of furniture in the museum as well.
And I will say that the Art Institute is actually a pretty good stop. It's in a great location in Chicago, kinda like downtown and on the lake shore all at the same time. And it does have some really cool stuff. Also side note, my kids got to see Ferris Bueller's day off for the first time over our Christmas break. We were down visiting relatives.
Phil Huber (02:53.56) For an 80s movie, it actually held up pretty well. It wasn't super cringy.
Phil Huber (03:05.293) I don't know if the last time you guys saw that one.
Logan Wittmer (03:10.334) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (03:14.135) Kids have started catching up on the 80s Christmas movies though. So they're getting that. They're getting it.
Logan Wittmer (03:19.049) Mmm.
My one of my favorite movies of all time and I have not subjected my kids to it yet is the Breakfast Club. Like one of my all time favorites. Anytime I'm on a plane and it's on, it's on. I'll watch it. Yep. 100%.
Phil Huber (03:23.246) All right.
John Doyle (03:32.491) Yep.
Phil Huber (03:32.786) okay. Yep.
Really?
You're watching it. Okay, so that's a John Hughes one as well. What is it about Breakfast Club? Because I've only seen it.
maybe once and it was a long time ago and I didn't quite get it.
Logan Wittmer (03:56.937) I don't know if it is the nostalgia because I'm like, like my dad loved the movie. And I think maybe the music in it as well. I don't know. It just hits the right notes with me.
Phil Huber (04:03.778) Okay.
John Doyle (04:14.113) One of my wife's favorite movies was always the Apple Dumpling Gang as a kid. And several years ago, she was talking this up and was like, we got to watch it with the kids or whatever. So we turned it on and halfway through, the kids got bored and walked off and started playing, doing other things. And we sat there and watched the whole thing. We loved it. kids these days, they don't know culture.
Phil Huber (04:40.332) No, they don't. Which is funny because my son loved Ferris Bueller. He was just...
laughing and totally into the movie. And then not that long afterwards ended up watching The Goonies. And that was his first time seeing The Goonies and he felt like we owed him an apology for not having him see that movie sooner.
Logan Wittmer (04:57.842) Yeah.
John Doyle (04:58.123) Yes.
John Doyle (05:04.407) you
Phil Huber (05:09.143) So.
I'm kind of the next one that I would like to maybe watch with him since my daughter's off at school is the last star fighter.
John Doyle (05:22.455) Oh yeah, that's a one. It's a little more obscure. Might have been before your time.
Logan Wittmer (05:24.072) I've seen that one.
Logan Wittmer (05:29.576) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (05:31.118) probably was.
Phil Huber (05:35.006) Mad Max 72 says my grandson wants me to build an LP cabinet and I'm hoping to start that soon. I think that's a solid. That's solid.
Logan Wittmer (05:46.331) We also have a few plans for those.
John Doyle (05:49.963) Liquid propane, right? Yep, liquid propane cabinet.
Logan Wittmer (05:51.527) Yeah. Yep. The Hank Hill cabinet.
Phil Huber (05:51.948) Yes, yeah, that's what that one is.
You
Logan Wittmer (05:58.642) propane and propane accessories.
John Doyle (06:00.695) Yeah.
Phil Huber (06:01.582) I mean, cause you gotta keep.
Phil Huber (06:06.062) You got to acclimate that LP. So you got to have like some inside LP and some outside LP.
Logan Wittmer (06:10.371) Mm-hmm. Yep.
Phil Huber (06:14.542) Boys says, interesting show as always. John is definitely a first round pick. Go Bills.
John Doyle (06:23.113) you
Phil Huber (06:29.896) IJWTBotDad says, current projects, fixing the juice groove I messed up on because I had to jerry-rig my Rockler juice groove jig to work, or not work apparently for my cutting board. Also learning Fusion 360. Next up, a custom cribbage board with some epoxy parts. I've never used epoxy before, so learning all that in the process.
John Doyle (06:57.879) Juice grooves are always tricky because that's one of the last things you do. it's like, if even if you have a jig that like the router goes on the inside or the outside, you always have the chance of just kind of going off track and you know, so.
Logan Wittmer (07:10.019) ZOOP!
Phil Huber (07:10.038) Yeah. Especially on corners where it can just kind of go off the rails.
Logan Wittmer (07:16.539) Yeah, yeah. This is why I don't do juice grooves in cutting boards.
John Doyle (07:22.027) Yeah.
Phil Huber (07:22.051) Ha
Logan Wittmer (07:24.679) My philosophy is put a sheet pan down with a cutting board inside of it.
John Doyle (07:28.641) There you go.
Phil Huber (07:29.102) There you go. Or just wipe it up after you're done.
Yeah, because I would agree and I think
Phil Huber (07:40.495) We've been guilty of it in the past in Woodsmith, but I've seen every other woodworking magazine do the same thing, where they have a showing a cutting board with a juice groove and they use some sort of a template, usually on the inside. Well, like you said, John, sometimes it's a frame one where it's the outside. Anyway, you put it on there, double-sided tape or clamps or whatever.
And then they show a fixed base router with a guide bushing to route the juice groove.
which is great unless you're trying to either start or stop that groove. Because with a fixed base router, like the bit is sticking out already. And now you have to tip the router onto the template, making sure that you tip it on to the template so that the guide bushing is right against that juice groove, or right against the juice groove template, otherwise it's in the wrong spot.
and more than likely you're gonna get a burn mark there and you've made your cutting board out of maple like you should supposedly and now you have this scorch mark in the juice groove that you're never gonna sand out.
John Doyle (09:03.723) Yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Even if you are successful, you're gonna have burn marks at the starts and stops and corners and a lot of sanding.
Phil Huber (09:15.596) Yeah. So if you're going to use a template with a guide bushing, use a plunge bass. That's my pro level.
Logan Wittmer (09:24.304) the, yeah, the...
Yeah, most of the commercial ones are outside style. So like the framework style ones and I'm somehow I'm on a couple of Facebook groups that are just cutting board, like the cutting board mafia and all these Facebook groups. Like that's literally the name. and a lot of people are using the outside ones. but there's no, there's no good way to avoid burning on it. Like at all.
Phil Huber (09:45.783) Yeah.
Phil Huber (09:53.486) No.
Logan Wittmer (10:00.142) So.
I did at one point buy a juice groove cabinet scraper. It has little nodes around the outside for different size grooves. I haven't used it so I don't how works.
Phil Huber (10:09.185) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (10:18.768) because as I said, I just don't do grooves.
Phil Huber (10:22.892) Yeah, I don't
Phil Huber (10:28.086) Yeah, I did them on a few, ran into that problem, got annoyed by it, and then just haven't done it on any of the other cutting boards that I've done since then.
Phil Huber (10:40.824) So there's your solution, just plane down that cutting board until there's no more juice groove on it and you're golden.
John Doyle (10:50.377) or purchase a CNC just for juice grooving.
Phil Huber (10:54.093) Logan Wittmer (10:55.11) I was thinking, I was sitting here thinking, I mean I've been running this Axiom here, could do it on that, but I've also been running the Shaper Origin a lot with BenchPilot. I would just let it do it.
Phil Huber (11:12.152) There you go. Especially since he wants to learn Fusion 360.
Logan Wittmer (11:17.935) That's right.
John Doyle (11:18.007) There you go.
Logan Wittmer (11:21.453) What's easier than drawing a rectangle?
John Doyle (11:21.793) Fee. Right.
Phil Huber (11:23.906) Yeah. Tim Passmore says, I'm currently working on a large turned vase that will get basket illusion embellishment. The vase is turned, beaded, and marked for burning. It will contain just under 10,000 cells that will be painted after the burning. I have eight hours in on the piece so far and I'm anticipating another 20 before it's done.
Logan Wittmer (11:52.258) I have a picture of that. Tim texted me a picture of it.
Phil Huber (11:54.99) You did. Okay. All right.
Phil Huber (12:00.198) Uh, bony board wood shop says I need to get a new bandsaw blade and I've looked at the carbide blades. found a company called super cut that have impregnated carbide blades and was wondering on our thoughts. I haven't used the carbide impregnated ones. We just have carbide tipped ones. We have one in the shop and that works really well. Uh, the kerf is a little bit wider. I think you said that last time, Logan.
Logan Wittmer (12:23.141) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (12:28.75) But it's a remarkably smooth cut, I think.
Logan Wittmer (12:33.114) Yeah.
Yep, I.
Maybe it's because, I hear a lot when people talk about Carbug Dip Band Saw Blades that it is a finished quality cut off the saw, like, no it's not. Like maybe you could get that, maybe if you're buying a super nice blade. I think I mentioned a lot of the blades I have, especially for the Harvey.
Phil Huber (12:56.782) Hmm, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (13:07.318) I ordered direct from a manufacturer in China and they're phenomenal for the price I paid for them. I paid the same price that I would have for a wood slicer and they're phenomenal. They're not as smooth, I don't think as the resaw king that I have on the big bandsaw. Doesn't bother me one bit. Like, it does, like there are times where, like, if I, if I rough,
Phil Huber (13:26.368) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (13:35.938) Like right now I'm working on a little wall cabinet for my little coffee station in here and I was breaking down some oak on the bandsaw and I was rough ripping it to width. And I did, when I got to the table saw, it took me a few minutes to like orient all the pieces right because the bandsaw cut was almost as smooth as the joint or the jointed edge.
so like I had to really like pay attention to which edge I was running against the fence because it was that smooth. I wouldn't say it's finished quality. I'm not sawing veneer straight off of it and slapping it down. but for what it is, it's great. but as you said, I like the carbide in pregnant blades.
Logan Wittmer (14:28.766) I'm sure that there's some form of difference than a standard high speed steel blade.
But I want the carbide because it is super tough. It is super tough, but it's also very brittle. So my question is, if you're impregnating carbide powder into a metal mixture, how much benefit are you actually getting?
you know, because there is there has to be some percentage of another alloy in there to keep that blade flexible because a solid carbide blade will not bend it will shatter. Right.
I know. I'd be interested to try one. I don't know. I'd be skeptical though.
Phil Huber (15:21.741) Yeah.
I think that's what I was thinking is that it would be some sort of a middle ground, that it would last longer than say your standard bandsaw blade, but not as long as...
a full on carbide tipped one.
and then you're kind of juggling cost benefit on it.
Logan Wittmer (15:47.403) Yeah, so this is interesting. I'm reading the supercutbandside.com's premium gold carbide blade description. It is the premium gold carbide blades in parentheses carbide impregnated teeth are the ultimate fusion of cutting technology and top quality materials. So sounds like just the teeth are impregnated with carbide.
It says that it was first developed for the Wood Saver carbide resaw blades. So I don't know, I don't know. I'd be interested to see, to hear how it cuts though. So go ahead and buy one, use it for six months, and then let us know if it was worth the money because they are more expensive. So I'm looking at the three TPI.
I just randomly clicked on the 136 inch one. A 3TPI 136 inch by 3 quarter inch blade is $62.62. In comparison, the 3TPI hook carbon tool blade is $27. So three times as much almost. Two and a half times as much as a standard high speed steel blade from them.
carbon steel blade. So, I don't know.
Logan Wittmer (17:20.744) interested to hear how it works.
Phil Huber (17:26.478) All right. That wraps up the questions and comments and smart remarks from last week's episode. If you want to reach out, we would love to hear from you. You can send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com, or you can send us the comments directly on our YouTube channel. You can check that out, YouTube slash shop notes podcast as the location to find all of our podcasts here.
and a good way to find out and get involved with the conversation.
All right.
Phil Huber (18:08.492) Logan, how about an update on your table and the gilding process that you were talking about last week?
Logan Wittmer (18:15.04) Yeah, table's done. I'm just waiting. My contact for the church is out fuzzle hunting this weekend or last weekend, so I could not deliver it last weekend. So it's sitting in here. It's done. I did one of the, I think I talked about it last week. the last part of that project was to CNC out a big orthodox cross. and then guilt that
So I ran that out of MDF, sealed the ever-living snot out of it. That thing was waterproof. You could have towed that behind a boat for the next six years and it would have been fine. I sealed it with like five coats of sanding sealer, sanded it, and then I have, I don't know, seven coats of paint on it. Because when you gild something,
Gold leafing is very, very thin and it's very delicate. It is very easy to scratch. So to hedge your bets, the best thing to do is to paint the object that's getting gilded first. Because then if it scratches, either if you pick a matching color like a yellow, it's not near as noticeable.
Or if you pick a stark color like a bright blue, then it's kind of a cool little pop of color in this gilding, right? We do that a lot in turning. I don't happen to have any gilded things in here. But it's a great way to hedge your bets if that does get scratched. But yeah, so I painted it. I ended up using a...
kind of a rusty orange color, almost like a terracotta color, because a lot of that base color does kind of show through the gilding.
Logan Wittmer (20:13.758) That made it like a warmer, richer gold. then yeah, then I gilded it. The gilding process is super easy to do. If somebody has never done it, it would probably be pretty intimidating, but it's super easy. You paint on a layer of adhesive, it's called a size. I use a water-based one. A lot of high-end gilding experts use oil-based size.
but you can't just buy that anywhere, have to order it. So use a water-based size that you can get at Hobby Lobby, stuff like that. And you allow the size to dry, and it dries to kind of like a rubber cement type tack. It's not tacky per se, it's, I don't know.
It feels like like a football players gloves like it's almost sticky, but not sticky But what it does is it grabs that the gilding? so There's a video I took a quick video of Gilding it and putting it on I put it on our Instagram the popwood Instagram page. It's super cool. I love gilding in the winter because Everything's super dry. So what I do is I grab my brush that I'm using so I use a
super soft bristle brush and you can either flick the brush through your hair or rub it on your clothes and it builds up a static charge and then you can just wick it across the top of the the leaf that you're using and it will grab onto the brush and you can just float it onto your sized material and then brush it down.
In a perfect world you're laying down the gilding perfectly flat with no wrinkles. However, the gilding is so thin that the wrinkles when they do appear, the only thing that's gonna stick down is...
Logan Wittmer (22:16.22) the material that's touching the size. So any wrinkles that are sticking up above the surface, as you burnish the surface, they kind of wear away, like they kind of disappear. yeah, I mean, took me maybe an hour to gild the whole thing. I did a couple of layers. was fighting some, the problem that I have with the size is that when it goes on and it dries, it's completely clear. So if you overlap edges,
at all and you put size on top of leaf and you don't get the size covered completely as you're burnishing with like a soft tissue or a know soft cloth or whatever some lint and stuff can get picked up on that size that didn't get covered so you might get a dark area that kind of looks dirty so I did a couple layers to cover some areas but looks great the problem also with with gilding is that
It's delicate as I mentioned and anytime you put a finish over top of it, you really kill the look of it. So they sell gilding varnish. A lot of them are acrylic. There are some oil-based ones, but it never looks the same after you do that. So I'm gonna leave it unfinished. It's the gold leaf. It'll patina beautifully.
You know, it looks hand done as it should. It doesn't look like I spray painted it, which is not what I, I didn't want to spray paint it with gold. You know, it is a hand gilded piece. So, so it looks great. Done. Dunzo. I do have another part of that project to finish up before I can get my money out of it. I got to build a vent hood for that thing. The candle.
station I guess. Which is going to be pretty simple. It's just be a two-sided box, frame and panel that's only 10 inches tall and maybe a foot and a half deep. So super simple. I'll whip it together in afternoon and get it installed. So yeah. So I decided I should pick up a project and the thing we don't get it well you feel you're pretty good about this.
Phil Huber (24:32.556) Bye.
Logan Wittmer (24:43.6) I'm bad about this. I don't ever build stuff for myself without a camera going. I just don't do that anymore. So this weekend I was like, you know what? I got in a cleaning mood in the house and I'm cleaning and kind of going through closets and stuff. And then the one that always bothers me is my coffee cup cabinet.
Phil Huber (24:49.518) So...
Logan Wittmer (25:06.142) because I have 45,000 coffee cups. have a problem, I have a problem buying a hand, like I've done this to myself. I have a problem buying like handmade coffee cups and I always buy the new Blue Spruce and Woodpecker's ones and whatever. And my thought was I'll keep those, like I'll keep the Blue Spruce ones, the Woodpecker's ones, the Sawsharp ones, like all the woodworking mugs are gonna stay in the shop for people to use when they're over, right? I don't know where to put them.
So I was like, I'm going to build a little cabinet to go on the wall in here to hold my tea that I use. have a bunch of tea in my drawers and then also the coffee cups. So I was like, you know what? We're not going to do any photos on this thing. Like maybe I'll treat this as a prototype and then rebuild it at some point.
But yeah, just a super simple little wall cabinet. have one sliding door that we can slide. The door is one third of the opening. So only one third of the upper cabinet is covered by the door. So it's either you have the door on the left, the right, the center. So there'll be two open shelves and then a big open shelf underneath with all the coffee cups on it.
It is some ambiguous species of oak. I think it's a red oak. I'm not sure, that I pulled out of the lumber rack, finger jointed through tenants for the shelf. yeah, I've ran all the finger joints on Shaper Origin, ran the, the mortises on Shaper Origin. So just letting it do its thing while I'm.
Sweep in the shop. Trying to collect all the gold dust that's floating around now. There's just little wispy tumbleweeds of gold leaf rolling around the shop. And they stick to everything because it's so dry in here.
John Doyle (27:14.711) Yeah, when you were describing the process of with the brush and getting it static and then like whipping the leaf around, I just had the Harry Potter theme music in my hand of just like, do do do do.
Logan Wittmer (27:22.395) Yeah.
Yeah, that's I mean, that's kind of what it's like. Yeah Yeah, that's kind of what it's like Yep
Phil Huber (27:29.676) Guardian Leviosa.
Phil Huber (27:35.15) Too funny. John, your wife's a teacher. You gotta have like 85,000 mugs in your house as well, right? Isn't that a common teacher gift?
John Doyle (27:43.099) yeah, she gets, it seems like it's more of like the, like the travel mugs now and like Stanley and Yeti and all that stuff. So she has gotten quite a few mugs, but it's more of the travel cups now. but yeah. So we have to go through them every year and kind of pare down and pick the ones we like the best. Sorry, kids.
Phil Huber (27:50.306) you
Phil Huber (28:15.445) Sorry kids.
John Doyle (28:16.373) Yeah, I have three daughters though, so they all like their to-go drinks. There's always water cups and mugs and stuff.
Logan Wittmer (28:26.31) Don't get me started on that. I just did dishes this morning before the kids got on the bus and the amount of water cups and unnecessary, okay, tangent. You know what grinds my chisels?
John Doyle (28:41.463) you
Phil Huber (28:42.498) Hahaha!
Logan Wittmer (28:44.56) People feeling like they need to use a damn straw when they don't really need a straw. Ugh. Too bad, physiologically, we don't have something that we can just pour liquid into, and we have to use a straw to siphon it.
John Doyle (28:48.105) yes, I hate that. Yes.
John Doyle (28:59.543) Right. Right. Yeah. And all those cups that they use, it's like, they all say like hand wash, don't put in the I'm not washing all your cups and your straws. They're going in the dishwasher. If they get ruined, I'm throwing them away. Sorry. So.
Phil Huber (29:17.39) I'm glad that this is a safe place because I feel the exact same way because there's so many of those.
John Doyle (29:19.125) Yeah. Yeah. And if they were here right now, I'd say it to their face.
Logan Wittmer (29:25.26) Hahaha
Phil Huber (29:25.506) Ha ha ha ha.
John Doyle (29:32.555) Luckily they don't listen to this.
Logan Wittmer (29:34.351) Nope, I hope not, God, I hope not.
Phil Huber (29:40.419) I had some dental work done a couple of years ago and had a tooth pulled and in the interim, you you can't drink from a straw. And for whatever reason that like broke me of straws. I'm just done with them. don't use one at restaurants. very, only if we're, you know, like stopped at a fast food place and have gotten beverages on the road.
Logan Wittmer (30:05.967) Yeah. Yeah.
John Doyle (30:06.72) Yeah.
Phil Huber (30:08.44) you know, where it's just more convenient that way. But yeah, it's.
John Doyle (30:15.351) Yeah, I don't use a straw at home, so I don't feel like I need to use one at a restaurant. I'm a big boy. I can drink out of a big boy cup.
Phil Huber (30:15.49) But yeah, and then.
Phil Huber (30:20.256) You
Logan Wittmer (30:22.863) Yep. Yep.
Phil Huber (30:24.43) Yeah. But yeah, we have like a handful of those like stainless steel straws and then the ones that come built into things. And you're exactly right. A lot of those travel mugs are ginormous and yet you can't get your hand inside of it to hand wash it. And a lot of times they're so tall that they almost don't fit anywhere in a dishwasher if you could put them in there.
Logan Wittmer (30:30.59) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (30:49.787) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (30:54.187) Yeah, I'm not for straws. I'd rather just choke the sea turtles with my bare hands. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (30:58.789) For sure, yeah, you watch the life go out of their eyes in person.
Phil Huber (30:59.244) You
Logan Wittmer (31:05.563) No, yeah, okay, you know what? Like on that note, you know what I hate worse than straws? Or the freaking paper straws, yeah.
John Doyle (31:06.711) It's just a personal preference.
Phil Huber (31:09.069) Just
John Doyle (31:14.731) Paper straws.
Logan Wittmer (31:20.155) Funny
John Doyle (31:24.215) Yeah, it's like drinking out of a pixie stick.
Logan Wittmer (31:27.471) Yep, yep, that's exactly what it's like. And not the big long ones, because those are real plastic straws. Little paper straws. Man, funny.
John Doyle (31:31.999) No. Yeah.
Phil Huber (31:39.906) This grouchy old man section of the shop notes podcast can be yours to sponsor if you get in contact with us.
Logan Wittmer (31:41.337) Yes.
Phil Huber (31:49.56) feel free to send us an email.
Logan Wittmer (31:51.332) This is Team VA over here.
Phil Huber (31:53.282) I'm
John Doyle (31:53.547) Yeah.
Phil Huber (31:58.095) So yeah, I go back and forth on whether the projects that I build, do I want to do photos or video on or not. And there's a lot of them where it's like, you know, if I do photos, even video, it's like easily four or five times longer to build.
Logan Wittmer (32:20.128) easy. And that was my issue where it's like, okay, I could just build this. I have a high level of anxiety on certain things. Certain things I just don't give a shit about. like certain things really cause me anxiety. Where one of them is my well of magazine content.
that I have shot with people and what do I have enough to fill out issues for the next two or three issues or whatever. And so that is what drives me a lot of the times to shoot. If I'm building something for myself, I'll shoot photos because that just is one other drop in the bucket that helps keep me sane. But on the flip side, I'm like, you know what? I just need this thing and if I shoot photos of it,
This turns a three day project, you know, working, you know, half a day on it for three days into like a three or four week project. and that just is not what I want to do right now. So just, yeah.
Phil Huber (33:26.616) I've talked about it in the past. We have a set of stacking saw horses, several of them here in the shop and in the studio. And then I have a pair at home that I just love for my small shop. They work as saw benches at the height that they're at for cross cutting or doing some hand work. It's a nice step stool. They stack for a taller work surface, all that kind of thing. So I wanted to make a bigger one.
So I used instead of plywood for the top, two inch, just over two inches thick solid oak from my son's tool chest. That was a leftover piece from you, Logan. And then did double thickness antens on it. And I did some video with that. And yeah, I could have had that done in a couple of weekends. And in doing the video, was like, well, I got to wait for...
this to happen and that to happen so that I can set up to do this and then you're.
Phil Huber (34:33.844) monkeying with angles and you know, like are you getting the angle right? Could it be a different angle? Should it be? Is it that angle but it should be higher or lower? Or is the light in the right spot?
Logan Wittmer (34:44.716) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (34:49.612) Yeah, it's just a lot. Just a lot.
Logan Wittmer (34:52.471) Yeah, you know speaking about sawhorses, I have... You guys tell me if you think this is a dumb idea.
I have, I have a, I've a few different sets of saw horses that I bought that I use here. I also have a set of saw horses from a, uh, Dana Myers, our former shop craftsman. went with him to help clean out a friend of his shop that passed away and his widow had sold me a set of these saw horses that he had built that are, I mean, they're huge. They're like,
The tops on them are probably five inches thick and 12 inches wide. They're oak. They're three feet long. They're they're just heavy. Like I could park my, I could legitimately park my skid litter on these things. But what I would really like is I would like a set of Uber light, saw horses for the shop.
So I was like, what would happen if you built a set of like post and rung style saw horses where the legs are spindles that have been turned and you have cross members that are turned. And then the top is, you know, instead of being a, you know, a flat board and maybe a two and a half inch diameter dowel, because I don't need it.
Phil Huber (36:04.8) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (36:21.432) All I need to set on it is like rough material. Like I don't need to be flat like could you make like a four pound? Three or four pound sawhorse doing it that style. I don't know. I Mean you'd have a lot of angles to mess with They'd look goofy as hell, but I think they would be kind of cool and they'd be super light You could move around the shop. I would love to be able just pick him up and hang him on a hook on the wall Kind of like I do my Democratic chair
Phil Huber (36:34.881) Maybe.
Logan Wittmer (36:50.84) I know. I've been messing around with that idea. Like I, because a Windsor chair can easily hold a 400 pound man. So like if you build a set of sawhorses in the Windsor style, post it wrong, do it right. I think it'd be kind of cool.
Phil Huber (37:10.805) Okay, that would be kind of cool. I can see that. Turnt saw horses.
Logan Wittmer (37:16.087) So yeah, I have to put them on the big lathe, but it'd be kind of cool.
Phil Huber (37:25.867) and you'll have to do photos of it while you make them.
Logan Wittmer (37:28.842) or not.
or build one and then do photos at the second.
Phil Huber (37:36.097) Right. I mean, you and I have talked about this where it's like, what if you just built the project, took photos at the end of it, and then for your quote unquote step photos, just used like dummy parts.
Logan Wittmer (37:53.734) we've done that. I've done that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And that does take off some of the pressure.
Phil Huber (37:55.659) Yeah.
Phil Huber (38:00.854) Yeah, because that's the other thing is when you're shooting a photo, especially of a tool action, like not only does the photo have to be right, but that part needs to turn out right too if you're going to use it in the project.
Phil Huber (38:20.343) So, okay. All right, if anybody else out there has attempted the post and rung saw horse or would like to and do it as a race with Logan, Markets at Go, we'd love to see what you get. That would be super cool.
You just never know.
Logan Wittmer (38:38.849) But I reserve all rights to publish the project. First editorial rights, all that jazz. Sorry.
Phil Huber (38:42.061) Ha ha ha.
Phil Huber (38:50.817) John, what else you got going on?
John Doyle (38:53.043) that time of year broken record of working on TV show stuff. So still working on Logan's vanity. Can't get rid of this thing. I know it would have been done three minutes ago if we didn't have to wait for the camera. So, but
Logan Wittmer (39:04.491) Cause we're doing a video. It just keeps going out.
Phil Huber (39:06.253) Hahaha!
Logan Wittmer (39:11.22) I know.
John Doyle (39:13.719) So working on that and I don't know the we're mid January, but we've had like spring like weather. it's I've kind of had the hankering to get into my shop and do shop projects, but I know like just around the corner is going to be sub zero temperatures. it's. Fall spring is tricking us. So, but that's kind of what I'd like to do, but we'll see if I bring stuff in here and work on it till then.
Logan Wittmer (39:29.452) Yeah.
John Doyle (39:43.905) But, cause like I said, got a graduate this year. So I'm going to start thinking about June, May, people coming to my house. So gotta, gotta have the shop projects looking good. You know, when they come make it look clean. Yeah. of course. Of course. Of course. Yeah. I'm sure she, my daughter's going to have projects for me.
Phil Huber (39:50.475) Mm-hmm. Right.
Phil Huber (39:58.72) And a graduation gift, you gotta make a graduation gift.
John Doyle (40:06.871) Because when my son graduated, he did not care at all about what we did for a party or if he would even show up. But the girl, it's a little bit different. Like got her and my wife talking like, maybe we need to build a little ice cream cart or a coffee cart or, you know. Yeah, there you go. I know I know where I can get 200 mugs. Logan's mug rental.
Logan Wittmer (40:23.998) Order custom coffee mugs.
Hehehehehe
Phil Huber (40:30.743) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (40:34.292) Yes.
Phil Huber (40:35.809) Ha ha.
Phil Huber (40:43.597) super funny. So in addition to your coffee station for your shop, what's next on your list?
Logan Wittmer (40:51.104) So yeah, I'm finishing up that cabinet. I'm gonna do that this week. The vent hood.
And then, okay, I have, my wife has been asking me, well, let me rephrase that. She hasn't been asking. I have been talking about building a set of chairs for our living room. Right now our living room has two couches in it. one of the couches is like super old. It's the dog couch right now. It's the one that the dogs lay on. Like when guests come over, I'm like, Ooh, don't, don't sit on that couch. Like you don't want to sit there.
So our thought was to get rid of that and build and I wanted to build two like not Morris chairs, but kind of lounge chairs with leather cushions on them and stuff.
Phil Huber (41:39.351) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (41:42.405) She keeps making little awkward jabs at me like, boy, when you build those chairs, like, so I feel like those should be the next project.
Logan Wittmer (41:54.079) But the contrarian in me wants to just not do it for that reason. I have two shop projects that I would really like to do. And they're part of this entire shop plan. One is an outfeed table. Because right now I have a Craig prefab leg base with a MDF top that's not attached. And it's far too large for what I need.
Phil Huber (42:11.664) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (42:24.117) And in that I kind of want to slide my table saw back towards the office and bathroom a little bit Because right now what I have is I have my table saw and dust collection coming down the ducks collection that's coming down feeds the table saw and a floor sweep that's right there I Don't use that floor sweep. I got crap sitting in front of it. Like I don't use that floor sweep So my thought was I'll get rid of that floor sweep
And where that Y is, one will feed the table saw, one will actually feed the spindle sander. Because the spindle sander is also sitting right there. And I can scoot the entire table saw back. I can still keep eight feet of in-feed into the table saw. But then that frees up maybe two foot of space on the backside. Would that be aft or that'd be aft side? Bow side? Bow side.
Phil Huber (43:00.39) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (43:24.135) And then I could build a table, the outfeed table. So that's kind of, that's one of those shop projects that's kind of been on my, some of this is kind of chicken or the egg, right? Like, doesn't matter. It doesn't really matter which one I do first. The other project is a continuation of my workbench build, kind of. I wanted to do tool cabinet behind the workbench.
Phil Huber (43:50.142) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (43:51.999) But I don't necessarily just want it to be a freestanding tool cabinet. I want like Norm's tool hutch, kind of. I want a countertop, I want lower cabinets, I want a counter back there, and then I want the tool cabinet to sit on top of that with plain till, saw till, that type of stuff. My thought was I got a nice
Remind me to ask you guys, I was gonna ask you guys last week what you guys got Woodworking Wives for Christmas if you did get anything. Phil, John was just sad. I just watched the life drain out of his eyes. So I got a gift card for Christmas from Amazon and I was gonna order another dust extractor because I have the one I have in the shop.
John Doyle (44:29.377) So yeah, I got nothing. I was good all year and I still got the shaft.
Logan Wittmer (44:47.503) is hooked up to the miter saw. It is a pain in the butt to unhook it. Then I want to use the miter saw. Then it's not plugged in. So as I was going to order a second dust extractor to have there, long story short, I want this cabinet base to have cubbies for some of the power tools I use, drills, jigsaw, track saw, that type of stuff. But then I want an area underneath for the dust extractor with hand tools up top. So those are kind of the two.
the two particular shop projects that I have been eyeing recently. So I don't know, it will be a, do I feel like working on high end lounge chairs or do I feel like just down in dirty shop projects? I'm kind of leaning shop project because I spend so much time out here that, you know, again, high levels of anxiety looking at my outfeed table just gives me the ick.
Yeah.
Phil Huber (45:48.226) I can see that. I usually dedicate like the early part of the year, especially after doing a bunch of Christmas projects. You know, I have it kind of fresh in my mind of these are a bunch of activities that I've done in my shop that could be better, different, improved if I did X, Y, and Z. And then so, you know, the late, late winter is shop projects for me.
Logan Wittmer (46:04.753) Mm-hmm.
Logan Wittmer (46:13.938) Yeah.
Phil Huber (46:16.087) So I can see that. Do you have a design for the lounge chair? Because I know you lean shaker and I don't remember the shakers having a lounge chair.
Logan Wittmer (46:17.895) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (46:24.244) The shakers did not lounge. I have ideas. I have mentioned in the past how I'm a Thomas Mosier fanboy. So there's a couple of Mosier style lounge chairs that I would base this off of, I think. The problem is, my wife's tastes lean a little bit more mid-century than mine do, which gives me the ick.
John Doyle (46:25.099) Yeah.
Phil Huber (46:27.927) Ha ha ha.
Phil Huber (46:50.583) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (46:54.387) So I don't really, I don't know, I don't know. To answer your question, no, I do not have a design.
Phil Huber (47:06.133) All that to say is no.
Logan Wittmer (47:07.653) Yes. I have concepts of a design.
John Doyle (47:12.225) There you go.
Phil Huber (47:12.331) There you go.
Logan Wittmer (47:13.489) Yep. So I have more of a design for the shop projects, which I think maybe will push me in that direction. Like I've built the the miter saw station in here is like a big, meaty frame and panel kind of style design based on our miter saw station in the shop there. My workbench is frame and panel ish timber frame style kind of.
from Steven Bunn. So I kind of want to marry those two a little bit. I fully admit this, that my shop's kind of my hobby as well. So like I like having stuff kind of all be in the same family. So I'm thinking maybe I do like the cherry legs and, you know, truss style, bents that are in the workbench, but maybe with the
painted panels? I don't know. To kind of marry everything together. We'll see. I have more of a concept for the shop projects. So that may be it.
Phil Huber (48:24.877) Alright.
I'm still cranking away on a desk project, my little secretary kind of desk. have panels glued up for the sides on it after resawing a bunch of white pine last year, just before Christmas and working out the, was laying out the side profile on there. And I've spent probably most of my time trying to get the proportions of that side profile. Now, when it comes to connecting those, I've been trying to figure out what I want that front.
to look like. And if I want to do kind of like a face frame sort of on the lower section, at least somewhat to help beef up the look of the sides and add some rigidity to that. And how do I do that considering that there's kind of a slant front going on there. So
Like every time I, know, you, cause you end up kind of designing or sketching in one perspective. So it's like side view and you do all these little details, then you do front view and you do all these details. Then it's like, wait, if I put a face frame on that, does that mean I either have to like notch the sides to hold the face frame or am I putting the face frame on and then cutting a slant across the top of that piece? And it's like, either could work.
Logan Wittmer (49:50.171) Yep. And not a right answer. Yeah.
Phil Huber (49:50.551) frankly, it's just right.
Logan Wittmer (49:57.679) Yep. What? Yeah, I'm running into that with this, this shelf because I don't have a design of it. I did, to be fair, I did start modeling it in SketchUp on the way home from Sweden as a, like, I'm going to put this in the magazine at some point. but I'm running into that with the back. like, I don't want to do a plywood back. I don't, I hate plywood backs. I will say it. I hate plywood backs. like shiplap hardwood backs.
Phil Huber (49:58.221) So anyway.
Logan Wittmer (50:27.535) just, I don't know. But then putting that into a finger jointed case, I'm like, it just becomes a lot of hoopla to get that in there. Like, you know what I mean? So I'm like, how do I do this? Like, how do I do this without it looking ghetto?
Phil Huber (50:47.928) Yeah. I mean, you say that about plywood backs and I would agree. I love like a frame and panel back or, you know, beaded board, know, beaded boards, not bead board, whatever. But, you know, we would all raise our hands like, do you use plywood backs anyway?
Logan Wittmer (50:54.181) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (51:00.463) Yep. Yep.
Logan Wittmer (51:09.263) Yep, yep. I don't know the last time I've used a plywood back. Yeah, well, okay. Like this candle cabinet table, does have, it has a frame and panel back with plywood in it. So like, mean, yeah.
Phil Huber (51:17.156) really?
Phil Huber (51:30.658) Yeah, which I would think is still a different animal because it's a constructed piece.
Logan Wittmer (51:35.948) It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Where I'm like, yeah, I could, I could really just cut a piece of plywood and stick it in there. but because I only have that single door that's going to slide left and right, you're going to see two of the cubbies open at any time. So you're going to see the back. I want it to be a half decent back. don't know.
Phil Huber (52:02.894) All right, there you go. What, this is the poll question. What furniture construction method do you really not like, but you still end up using in the same way that, you know, a quarter inch plywood back works. Is it the best looking? I don't know. But yet you still end up doing it. That's the question I would like you to.
answer in the questions, comments and smart remarks. You could do that by email woodsmith at woodsmith.com or put it in the comment section on our YouTube channel for the shop notes podcast. We will catch you on the flip side everybody out.
