Cordless Tools
I waver on how I think about cordless tools. The portability and features on cordless tools is lovely. For example, why don't corded drills stop instantly? Or have clutch settings? However, the lifespan of batteries is troubling. The cost of those batteries is often close to the price of the bare tool.
The other part that bothers me is that you need to buy into a battery system. So unless you want to change out all your tools, you can be forgiven if you feel trapped. That's where a good part of this episode goes.
It began with a simple question about tool wishlists. I have a couple Bosch 12V cordless tools: a driver, an impact driver, and a jigsaw. I love the compact size and what these tools deliver for my needs. They're just right.
I also have some Ryobi 18V tools: a pole saw, an in-the-house drill, a high-speed drill, and a 18ga. brad nailer. I got these primarily based on balancing price vs. the amount I'd use them.
We have the Ryobi nailer on the TV show set. It works just fine. That's why I got one for myself. I don't use a nailer often. So I didn't feel I needed a high-end one ... or a compressor.
The high-speed drill powers my Jessem Pocket Mortise Mill. That jig (and the Kreg version) work better with a higher speed drill; at least 2,000 rpm.
The pole saw is handy for tree care and storm cleanup.
I'd love the Milwaukee versions of all of those tools. As I said, I don't know that my use habits can justify the cost. So for now, I'm ... trapped ... satisfied ... with my Ryobi tools.
What do you think?
Transcript
It isn't the Battle of Maldon. But it does end better.
Phil (02:38.119) Hey everybody, episode number 254 of the ShopNotes, right? 254? Yep, 254 of the Shop Notes podcast. I'm your host, Phil Huber. John and Logan, both here today answering viewer and listener questions, responding to comments and smart remarks. And probably, maybe, I don't know.
a special segment later on in the episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to get in touch with us, the best way is on our YouTube channel, Shop Notes Podcast. You can leave a comment there or as always send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com.
Shout out to our sponsors. This episode of the Shop Notes podcast is brought to you by Gorilla Glue. When you're working on a project in the shop, you put in hours of effort, hopefully. And the last thing you want is for it to come apart because the glue didn't hold. That's why you should keep a bottle of Gorilla Wood Glue on the bench. It's non-foaming, it cleans up with water and it dries a natural color, so it blends right in. And of course, there's the reliable Gorilla Strength you can always trust. Also check out
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All right. Last week, Logan and I got sidetracked talking about fasteners mostly. And, we've kind of had them on the brain a little bit here, doing some videos with fasteners and then just, mean, honestly, we're constantly cleaning up the video studio and we have way too many boxes of fasteners that are all wood screws primarily that are
very similar in length, if not identical, but they're all in different bins. So you're wondering, are these different? I don't know. Anyway, a few replies to that one. ijwtbotdad says, I'm with you on the premium screws. In the past, I've done a lot of construction type building versus woodworking that I'm trying to get into now. Having good screws makes all the difference during the construction and durability over time.
I always buy the best screws I can find whatever the task. So I followed up to see like, like what if he had a brand preference. he kind of compares what he's got at the time, but SPACs in GRK tend to be the ones he buys the most, which that's fair.
Really good choices. Almost Perfection says, I would agree that GRK structural screws are way better than lag screws. Have you seen or used the funnel head screws designed for plywood case construction? I think they're from Quickscrews. They look interesting, but I haven't had the need to order any yet. And I am not familiar with those, the funnel head.
Logan Wittmer (06:36.842) were you not there when I filmed the other day?
John Doyle (06:39.608) Yeah.
Phil (06:41.169) I wasn't I was only there for half that day, so.
Logan Wittmer (06:44.883) So the timing of this is impeccable. Because I did just do some videos for quick screws and showed off their funnel head screws. They are interesting. They are...
I don't think I have one here. I have them in the truck. They're an interesting type screw. I will grab a picture to show on the screen. But they're, or on the show notes page, their head profile is almost like that of a T nut that you would, or like one of the prong T nuts that you would pound into wood.
So they don't have like a funnel head. They are more of a stepped shoulder. And they are designed to kind of counter sink themselves and offer a lot of holding in like particle board, MDF and plywood to resist like pull through. They're super interesting. I want to...
Phil (07:31.299) yeah.
Phil (07:49.883) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (07:59.018) play with them a little bit further before I commit fully to giving you an opinion on them, but I know that Quickscrews sells a boatload of them.
they are used a lot in like cabinet case construction. like where you would be, let's say screwing the bottom of a cabinet into dados on case sides and you just want to pop a screw through the sides, the kind of counterbore, they sit pretty much flush. I wouldn't say that they...
I wouldn't say that they bury themselves super deep to the point where you could like plug the hole, but they sink enough that they're not proud of the surface. So they're super interesting. I'm gonna mess with them quite a bit more. I'm probably, I talked last week about ordering this giant box from McFeely's on their Pro Max. I'm probably gonna order a big box of those.
funnel heads just to kind of screw around with them. They seem like they would be a very interesting screw to use in those plywood construction situations. So we'll see.
Phil (09:06.715) Hmm. So.
visually how are they different from like a confirmat then
Logan Wittmer (09:16.317) Phil (09:17.543) I mean, confirmat are a hex drive, so there's that. Because I mean, the way you're describing them, that's a big flat washer head.
Logan Wittmer (09:20.284) Yeah, they are
Logan Wittmer (09:27.241) Yeah, so the Confirmats have more of like a tapered shoulder, if that makes sense. So it's more like what you would see on like a leg screw that isn't fully threaded the whole way, know, where it steps up into a bigger shoulder. That's more what the Confirmats are like. I think that they are probably equals. I don't know that I would say, I think they're interchangeable, probably.
Phil (09:35.302) Yeah.
Phil (09:42.277) Yeah, Right.
Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (09:56.691) The funnel head from Quick Screws, I'm Googling it quick just to make sure that I am speaking correctly. I don't think they have any form of that tapered shoulder.
Phil (10:15.461) Yeah, like a unthreaded shank or whatever you want to call it.
Logan Wittmer (10:17.593) Yeah, I don't think they have any of that. I mean, they have a little bit of a bulbous head underneath, and then they have a spiral thread on the bottom side. So, yeah, I'll include links to the pages for both quick screws and McFeely's so people can see the difference between them.
Phil (10:41.447) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (10:43.744) Yeah, I guess that, you know, the washer head style is a good way to describe those funnel heads from Quickscrews. It's almost like an inverted washer head, where the top of the screw is completely flat, but then the bottom has a little bit of a, not a dome, but kind of a dome.
Phil (10:59.59) Yeah.
Phil (11:05.178) Okay. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (11:07.305) Yeah, this, just talking about the quick screws website real quick, the the the funnel head, which they they use the term cabinet assembly screws and funnel head kind of interchangeably.
Phil (11:25.551) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (11:25.64) But it says, you know the The cabinet assembly screws are designed to drive into MDF and plywood without pre-drilling making them ideal for shops without specialized equipment Sucks joints together for tight clean construction and it's designed for hardwood plywood and MDF Now I will say when I was doing the videos I was driving them I believe through Walnut
into MDF, I think. And the walnut was a little hard for them to like counter sink themselves or pull themselves flush without stripping out the MDF on the inside. So I don't know that, you know, I think you would want to make sure using like materials on the outsides or be careful on your driving. So.
Phil (12:10.318) okay.
Phil (12:23.036) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (12:24.754) But like, I mean the price of them is slightly more than what I paid for this. So this box of, I believe this was a box of thousand, yeah, this box of a thousand Pro Max screws, number eights by Inch and three eights. I think I paid like 40 some bucks after shipping for this thousand count. The cabinet assembly screws for a thousand are $67. Slightly more, they are slightly longer.
Phil (12:45.244) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (12:53.927) So I'm not comparing necessarily apples to apples, but I think they're interesting and they're definitely one that I want to mess around with a little bit more before I say, yep, that's my 100 % plywood screw.
Phil (13:08.773) Yeah. So.
Phil (13:15.547) Here's a follow up question for the both of you then. Several manufacturers of wood screws talk about the ability to drive said screws without some kind of initial pilot or shank hole. In your own practice, regardless of the claims, what do you do?
John Doyle (13:41.066) I am always pre-drilling. I've just been burned too many times before. I have trust issues. And also it might be the OCD of the fact that it's like I gotta lay them all out so they're like evenly spaced and then they all wind up and you'll watch Chris Fitch and he's just putting screws in wherever. I mean, he doesn't, I mean, they're not like wherever, but he doesn't like lay them out or anything.
Phil (13:47.685) You
John Doyle (14:10.894) He does it,
Logan Wittmer (14:13.287) I-
Having spent time on the phone with owners of McFeely's and Quickscrew's, I think they both agree that in the right, in most situations you do not need a pre-drill.
However, as John said, I've been burned too many times by not pre-drilling. And the consensus from the experts on screws is that the only times you really need to pre-drill are when you have a problem driving a screw straight.
or the location is super important. Like you're trying to sink a screw in the middle of the panel into a shelf or something. I pre-drill more so that I get a good counter sink on it.
the the you know, I I showed these pro max and a lot of the screws now are manufactured like this where they have these Focus on there or not. They have these little like ridges and nubs on the bottom side of the head That are supposed to kind of chew in its own little countersink. I want something a little cleaner than that. So I use one of the manna Counter sink bits as the spinning collar on it. So when you drive it down, you can only hit that collar and then
Logan Wittmer (15:46.002) collar starts spinning it it stops the you know it's a depth stop but it doesn't mar your work surface so I use one of those because I find that that is a good way for me to do it it's just how I work and again I'm not a production shop where I'm sinking you know 5,000 screws a day like if you're like if you are in a and that's where a lot of you know McFeely's and quick screws are selling to are these large shops that are you know they're
Phil (15:54.449) Right.
Logan Wittmer (16:15.815) hundreds of cabinets a day, that extra step of pre-drilling is a huge waste of time and it's a huge waste of resources where in my shop that's not the case.
John Doyle (16:25.476) Yeah, yeah, that's I was gonna say too. We're not really in production mode that's like saving that much time. We're not making a thousand pieces of furniture a day or it's more about craftsmanship, you know?
Logan Wittmer (16:41.254) I will say, I think it's Spax that claims their screws you can drive without pre-drilling. I'll call BS on that one. Because it's, I don't remember, I could go grab one of my box of Spax screws.
It's something like, you know, like, does this one say it? No, this one doesn't say it. But basically, you know, the very tip of the thread on the screw is serrated or something like that where it, you know, pre-cuts its own hole. I'm like, no it doesn't. Like, maybe it does for the first, like...
surface, you know, the eighth of an inch of the material while it can still auger it out. But as soon as you get that tip buried, there's nowhere for those chips to go. Like, it can't pull it out. So I think something like, you know, the split point, like the type 17 point, or these ones on the Pro Max where they have that split in the tip.
Phil (17:31.365) Yeah.
Phil (17:45.564) Right.
Logan Wittmer (17:46.532) I think that does a little more because that tip can at least get packed with some shavings before it stops cutting. But at that point, I also think it depends on the material. A hardwood oak is going to split more readily than something fairly soft like an air-dried walnut or a soft maple.
Phil (18:13.947) Yeah, make a good, both of you make a good point about that being, you know, production oriented versus what you're trying to do in furniture pieces. And I think there's a big difference also in if you're driving screws into plywood more frequently than you're driving screws into solid wood pieces.
Phil (18:37.479) because I'd have to say that I usually do.
Phil (18:42.117) I pre-drill holes all the time. don't, there's just very rarely that I'm not going to do that.
Logan Wittmer (18:54.254) Yep, and I think a lot of it.
I'm still sitting here with my screen opened up on these funnel head screws from Quick Screws and the ConferMat screws from McFeely's. The one thing about the ConferMat screws is they don't have a point either. So those you do have to pre-drill for sure. So they have a stub end. They're not pointed. So you do have to pre-drill those.
Phil (19:21.765) Yeah, yeah. Right.
Logan Wittmer (19:28.492) You know, looking at the way that that head works, where it's like an inverted washer head, where the flat shoulder is pulling down to the surface of the material. I think a lot of the times, you know, if I'm thinking about how I'm using dado joints in my shop for like a case construction, or like even this church table I'm still working on, like...
In hardwood, a lot of times I'm running those dados half depth, so like 3 eighths in a 3 quarter material. With those cabinet assemblers, I think that gets a little close. So usually I give a little bit more, so I only go like a quarter inch deep on those dados or rabbets and really give that head something to pull against. And I think that's where you're really gonna gain a lot of that.
Phil (19:58.406) Right.
Logan Wittmer (20:15.177) extra strength is give it a little bit more material let that screws bearing surface be that large shoulder but give it some meat to pull against.
Phil (20:32.549) I can see that because there's been a couple of times where I've reinforced like a rabbit joint and if it's a pretty deep rabbit there's just not much there by the time you you know counter sink a screw for there for it to to bear against I guess
Logan Wittmer (20:47.169) Well, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (20:51.395) Yeah, that's exactly it. That's what I was thinking. It's like, if you take, you know, I don't know what the depth on one of these funnel heads are, but it's every bit of an eighth of an inch. It's a fat eighth of an inch. So if you're on a three eighths inch deep dado.
Phil (21:07.548) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (21:08.554) you have 3-8's material left, all of you're down to a quarter that you're pulling against and you're basically at that point driving the wedge head of that screw, it's like a splitting wedge down into that quarter inch material, so not a lot there, but.
John Doyle (21:22.106) Yeah, I had that concern on this wall shelf we just did for woodsmith where I did use one inch material, but it's like a dadoed in joints and then the screws were plugged so they had to be in a ways, but it's like, yeah, gotta leave enough beef there for the screw to hang on to so it doesn't pull all the way through.
Logan Wittmer (21:46.691) Yeah, well, as soon as you start talking about plugging those screw holes, that adds an entire nother layer to it. At that, it's like, okay, do you go down to an eighth of an inch dado? Are you gaining enough by doing that? I don't know.
John Doyle (21:58.618) Right.
Phil (22:02.545) Well, at that point, the data was just for registration then.
Logan Wittmer (22:05.75) Yeah, 100%.
Phil (22:10.735) All right. One last comment from last week's Stig's tea says Logan. Yes, you absolutely need to buy the Domino XL. You never truly know how much you need a new tool until you get the new tool. Not having the opportunity to use it doesn't let you create more opportunities to use it. I mean, that's deep thought right there.
Logan Wittmer (22:18.316) Hell yeah. Thank you.
John Doyle (22:19.098) You
Logan Wittmer (22:32.343) Stigst, can I get a doctor's note from you please? Yes, don't need you to be an actual doctor, I just need the note.
John Doyle (22:34.362) Yeah. You have the blessing.
Phil (22:36.506) you
Phil (22:48.071) So that was in reference, there was an opportunity possibly for you to do another set of church doors and you were contemplating doing those with a domino rather than trying to do setups on big pieces with a panto router.
Logan Wittmer (22:56.193) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (23:04.77) Yep, exactly. So, still undecided. just, I still looked at the price of it and I'm like, shoot. At that point, I'm doing the church doors for free in reality, just to buy the tool, which is not a bad way to operate if that's how you're operating, not to run a business. So, I don't know. That's not how this works. God, I wish it was, but.
Phil (23:22.971) Right.
John Doyle (23:25.498) You just write it off.
Logan Wittmer (23:34.912) You know.
Phil (23:37.959) All right. we'll wrap up with a question that came in over the emails. Tom Lewis writes, I love your magazine. Many of the plans offered utilize a quarter inch hardboard for various component parts. Unfortunately, quarter inch hardboard is not available here in Wichita, Kansas. We have a good selection of home centers here, including Home Depot, Lowe's, Menards, Sutherland's, Star Lumber, and various hardware stores.
We can get quarter inch pegboard made from hardboard, but that won't always work with the project at hand. So here's my question. Do you know of an online source that stocks and ships quarter inch hardboard? I tried laminating my own two pieces of eighth inch hardboard, but that turned into a disaster. Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
Logan Wittmer (24:34.017) the hard the quarter inch hardboard manufacturers have went extinct. Was it a meteor? I don't know because it is extremely hard to find now. What I have started to do is I use quarter inch MDF and I think that's about the best you can do.
Phil (24:59.963) Yeah. I feel like it's still there, but I agree. It's just not as commonly available. Like every so often I see it and it's almost like, you know, seeing a white deer out in the woods. You know, it's just, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (25:15.743) Stock up.
John Doyle (25:19.694) Yeah, I see a lot of the quarter inch stuff that's like at the mesh textured back, like finding the two sided stuff is really hard. But yeah, quarter inch MDF would work.
Phil (25:20.028) Phil (25:29.147) Yeah.
Phil (25:35.279) I mean, quarter inch hardboard is definitely more, a more durable material. And then quarter inch MDF. I guess if, if I were to make a recommendation, not knowing anything about the Wichita, Kansas area, which is part of the reason that I'm putting this out there is for any listeners or viewers to chime in here on that comment is I think your best bet is to go to like a legit lumber yard.
Logan Wittmer (25:40.704) Mm-hmm.
Phil (26:05.313) and order it through them. Where you're going to
You know, so it, and I'm not talking like a Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot kind of place. it's gotta be somebody that's, you know, mostly selling to builders and cabinet makers and stuff like that. And I feel like Wichita is a big enough town that it's going to have, you know, like we have Liberty hardwood here in Des Moines and I bet you we can get quarter inch hardboard through them.
John Doyle (26:38.424) Yeah, that's where we've gotten it from recently. know. A lot of times, I was just saying, lot of times we'll use quarter inch hardboard in projects just for aesthetics. Like a lot of times if I'm building a project out of Baltic birch and it's like, you don't want it to all look like Baltic birch, you'll throw in some hardboard for color or.
Logan Wittmer (26:38.686) I'm looking right now to see if they listed.
Phil (26:44.037) Yeah.
So it's gotta be one of those, go ahead.
John Doyle (27:05.986) you know, just aesthetically. So maybe you could just use quarter inch plywood. But yeah, depends on the project. It depends on the usage, I guess.
Phil (27:06.118) Yeah.
Phil (27:16.089) on the usage, yeah. We've done a lot of shop jigs, shop note stuff that had quarter inch hardboard in it. And I think that's kind of where I, mean, it's a delightful material to use, frankly, that there is a difference between that and quarter inch MDF. But like we've done quarter inch MDF on a lot of cabinet backs recently. I don't.
I think you could do it in small drawer bottoms. think at that point you'd just go with quarter inch plywood.
Logan Wittmer (27:50.526) Yeah, so my quick Googling brought me to AndersonPlywood.com, which seems like they are maybe a distributor. I don't know that they're necessarily a manufacturer, but this is interesting because in big letters, big bold letters, says, S2S tempered hardboard is no longer available. I don't know if that means generally, like industry wide or just from these guys, but.
Phil (28:17.073) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (28:19.476) the.
Standard grade hardboard is a medium brown panel smooth on one side with a rough crosshatch pattern on the other side So that's what you're gonna find a lot of is the standard grade hardboard tempered hardboard is impregnated under heat with linseed oil Making it more water resistant and tougher That's the one that you're gonna find that is smooth on both sides you know for I think for most things I don't know when a Hardboard panel is going to be better
Phil (28:29.297) Yeah.
Phil (28:34.758) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (28:51.273) than an MDF panel, a quarter inch MDF panel, like personally. For patterns and stuff, like if I'm doing the same routing template and I'm doing that dozens of times a week and it's gonna wear out, the bearing's gonna wear out, you know, I'm probably going to something like an acrylic template. You know, I think...
Phil (28:56.689) So.
Logan Wittmer (29:16.445) This is just my opinion. I think that the MDF is a great substitute and I don't know that there's a reason to go to that hardboard if you can't find it. If you can find it, great. It's wonderful material. But.
John Doyle (29:29.06) And depending on what sizes he's looking for, you could probably find, you know, the smaller like hobby size, like two foot by four foot or two by two, like pieces like that, that'll ship. Of hardboard too, I would think of like shipping wise. you're, know, rather than trying to get a four by eight sheet shipped or something like that. So.
Logan Wittmer (29:38.758) Yeah, of MDF you're saying. yeah maybe.
Yep.
Phil (29:48.197) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (29:54.814) Yeah, yeah, see Menards, because the three of us are Menards fanatics, they only show a 3 16ths hardboard panel on their website. They don't show quarter inch. And it doesn't say if it is smooth both sides or if it is a just a standard hardware, it does not say tempered. So I'm guessing that it is probably a one side.
Phil (30:21.009) Yeah. Pretty sure it's the waffle pattern on the backside that I've seen. mean, if there, I will say there's been times where I found it at Menards. mean, it's been years since I've looked, but like Fleet Farm here in the Midwest used to have quarter inch hardboard where it was smooth on both sides. The service tempered or whatever they call that oil tempered.
Logan Wittmer (30:36.478) Hmm.
Logan Wittmer (30:43.441) Yeah.
John Doyle (30:43.982) Yeah. Yeah, I've had a hard time finding like true quarter inch pegboard as well when we've needed that for projects. I think I've had to go to lumber yards for that because usually it's three sixteens. So.
Logan Wittmer (30:51.535) Mm-hmm.
Logan Wittmer (30:57.82) Yeah. And that like, and even like, think I've seen eighth inch pegboard too. And it's like, it's like, why, why, why would you ever do that?
Phil (31:04.389) Why? Yeah.
Phil (31:11.047) I don't get it.
John Doyle (31:11.224) like yeah it's like perforated cardboard you just tear on the dotted line
Logan Wittmer (31:15.198) Thank you.
Phil (31:16.799) you
Logan Wittmer (31:19.026) Basically.
Phil (31:21.075) Yeah, because it's easier to cut. You just fold it against a straight edge and then just tear it. No saw needed. I like that. I'm all for that.
John Doyle (31:26.05) Mm-hmm. Snap.
Logan Wittmer (31:26.108) Mm-hmm. Yep.
Logan Wittmer (31:33.214) Oh, just as a public service announcement, although this is not gonna be done in time. Dang it, hindsight, if you're in the Midwest, this is gonna air on Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, the 11 % rebate ended yesterday. So sorry. February, it's when they do it. But as a Menards fanboy,
John Doyle (31:48.09) So what we gotta wait till like February now
Logan Wittmer (31:58.823) Following the Menards Cult groups on Facebook and Reddit from now until February is when Menards will have lot of their free after-rebate items. So time to stock up on paint brushes, chip brushes, maybe tape measures.
John Doyle (32:16.642) I have a set of chisels from back in the day that were free after repeat. Yeah. And I just, yeah, they're used for all kinds of other tasks. Yeah. Masonry work or.
Logan Wittmer (32:19.133) you
Logan Wittmer (32:24.049) There's a reason for that.
Phil (32:25.82) Yep.
Logan Wittmer (32:32.305) Masonary work.
John Doyle (32:37.752) removing glue and, but you need a set of those too.
Phil (32:40.633) They're great as cold chisels.
Logan Wittmer (32:44.551) Yeah.
John Doyle (32:45.87) Very soft.
Phil (32:46.375) put a steep bevel on both faces, you're good.
It was also a delight to discover that Menards gives you a year now to send in your rebate form. So.
Logan Wittmer (32:56.454) Yeah!
Look at that, within easy reach. Got a stack.
Phil (33:02.117) Yep. Not saying that that's why the Midwest. Yeah. Yep. I mean, that's one of the highlights of the Midwest, frankly, is that we were really pioneers in cryptocurrency with Kohl's cash and Menard's rebate money.
John Doyle (33:02.714) Put those in the safe. That's as good as cash right there.
Logan Wittmer (33:16.115) Yeah
John Doyle (33:18.797) Yep.
Culver's, Scoopies, Save up.
Phil (33:23.58) scoopy points, yes.
Phil (33:31.707) Got a fun, just because it's around Thanksgiving and coming up on the opening of deer hunting season. got a little tidbit from my sister who follows the, Midwest versus the rest, Instagram account that Wisconsin becomes the ninth largest army in the world during deer hunting season.
with 600,000 deer hunting licenses are issued in the state.
putting the great state just behind Iran for standing army. yep, there you go. Fun fact.
Logan Wittmer (34:14.685) Where where was the gentleman looking for lumber or a hardboard in? Wichita Okay, I'm asking chat GBT to see what it says
John Doyle (34:19.62) Wichita.
Phil (34:19.88) Wichita, Kansas.
Phil (34:26.121) there you go.
Logan Wittmer (34:31.184) couldn't remember where it was, so I said Tulsa, Oklahoma, which does not appear that there is any. Try B &B Lumber.
Phil (34:41.051) B and B lumber. Okay.
Logan Wittmer (34:43.214) Yes. Which, here are some suggestions on what to ask them if you call them. Do you carry quarter inch thick tempered hardboard sheets? What brand and face grade and can I inspect the sheets for flatness before I purchase? All per ChatGPT.
John Doyle (34:58.01) They'll love that.
Logan Wittmer (35:02.812) Yep.
Phil (35:03.911) All right, those are all great questions. Not necessarily applicable to hardboard, but whatever.
Logan Wittmer (35:09.232) Nope.
Phil (35:13.639) How brown is your hardboard?
Logan Wittmer (35:15.484) So brown.
Phil (35:23.025) All right. Since we're, this one is coming out on Black Friday. Do you guys have any Black Friday tool, woodworking related items that you're scoping?
John Doyle (35:41.115) I've been kind of, yeah, I've been thinking about the Milwaukee Palm router that everybody has in the shop here. It's like, I might have to get one of those. So I've been kind of keeping an eye on prices and sales and so.
Phil (35:42.287) Or is it targets of opportunity?
Logan Wittmer (35:52.975) Yeah. It's freaking great. Yeah. I- Yep.
Logan Wittmer (36:03.023) Yeah. I'm honestly the only thing I'm looking for and I have one in my Amazon cart right now and I don't know.
feel little dirty about it. I don't generally buy off-brand stuff, like food I do, but like in clothes. Tools, I don't generally buy off-brand. I don't buy knockoff tools, so like I'm very like persistent in the admin that I will not buy like the knockoff woodpecker stuff that you see floating around on Amazon. Like I hate, like I don't like that.
but there is a guide that says it is for the, it's a track for the track saw. I was considering buying, I have the Festool cordless track saw. Really like it. Same one we have in the shop. The...
Phil (36:43.685) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (36:57.691) I have I have two of their I don't remember there are 55 inch tracks something like that But I always have them connected together with the connector bars just don't take them apart And when I need it just cross cut something really small. It's a pain in the butt I don't take them apart, but then I got this droopy track. So I was gonna buy either either the one-piece track from Festool and Their 110 inch track. I think I could find it at like ace for like 375 for that
big long track or I found a 110 inch track, it's a two piece track, so two 55 inch guide rails with connectors for 99 bucks on Amazon.
Phil (37:29.318) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (37:45.42) So I'm guessing, I mean this is a knockoff. is green, like Festool green and stuff. It's made by somebody that's not Festool. Has really good reviews. If that drops cheap enough, I might buy it just to see how it is. But the only other thing that I'm maybe looking at on...
Black Friday is a new blade for the Capex that I have here. Although rumor has it, some other blade manufacturers that I like are going to start making some miter saw blades. So I might hold off for one of those. We'll see.
Phil (38:16.176) Okay.
Phil (38:34.247) All right.
All right, going back to your comment, John, do you already have Milwaukee 18-volt stuff?
John Doyle (38:44.846) I do, have just the drills right now. I got those earlier this year. So, to add on.
Phil (38:47.664) okay.
Phil (38:51.845) Yeah. Cause we, I don't know what's it been about like a year or two maybe that Mark and Chris switched over and got the cordless Milwaukee Palm router with the plunge bass. And then Dylan got one and then it just feels like the dominoes are falling. So
John Doyle (39:13.166) Yeah.
Phil (39:14.375) The question that I have for you guys and then also for the listeners in general is like, what would it take for you to change?
cordless battery ecosystems.
John Doyle (39:33.068) It's tough. It's changing stuff. It's like, do you wait till all the batteries die? And then it's like, okay, now it's time to switch or. But.
Phil (39:36.155) because like it's really, yeah.
Phil (39:43.943) mean, cause you kind of did this Logan, cause you were pretty deep into Ryobi for a while. Like, all right, like we're just going to pause here and allow everybody to send in their comments on why Ryobi tools are terrible.
Logan Wittmer (39:49.315) Yeah, it was a dark time in my life.
John Doyle (39:51.214) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (39:56.608) Right. Yeah, yeah, and that's fine. But it was they were cheap. I have some too that was like it was on sale. Like these are just I'm going to have these for a year and they're disposable. You know, just sometimes you got to slum it.
Logan Wittmer (39:57.718) And I agree with every single one of you.
Logan Wittmer (40:03.565) That was it, yeah.
Phil (40:10.203) Well, it's, you know, like I, right. have several Ryobi 18 volt tools, part of it for the reason that several of the tools that I have at the time did not exist in another format at the price that I was looking for. You know, like I have a Ryobi, not woodworking related, pole saw, extendable pole saw. I only need it like twice a year when some thunderstorm comes through and I have to clean up.
trees in the yard or down branches and stuff like that. Works great. Don't use it all every day. I have a couple of their drills and then one I, and because I was already invested in Ryobi, I got one of their newer 18 volt brushless drills because it ran above 2000 RPMs, which works for the,
little Jessam slot mortiser that I have.
Logan Wittmer (41:15.383) Yeah, the
The thing that made me switch is that my battery started dying. I had a lot of Ryobi batteries and all of a I had more Ryobi batteries that were shot than were not. I think during that time I had used a few...
Phil (41:24.048) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (41:40.648) Milwaukee things I'm like, these are actually really nice like like I get it now and at that point I could afford to buy nicer tools. So I started buying What I avoid have avoided doing is buying a big kit at once and a lot of people do that They'll buy the five, know the five tools Like the five tool kit with the batteries and stuff and and for Milwaukee, that's pretty that's pretty pricey to do So I I bought I think the drill and impact driver set first came with a couple of batteries in the charger
And that was kind of my first one and that was honestly the I needed a new drill because I Freaking hate the Ryobi drills because the chucks always loosen on them Like they stop so quickly that when the stopping action happens the Chuck opens up Which drives me nuts so I bought the Milwaukee at that point and then I realized how nice that stuff was when I compared it to my Robbie stuff the Robbie stuff worked great for what I
Phil (42:28.763) Yeah. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (42:40.94) was doing at the time it was perfect it was great homeowner quality stuff really liked it so that's when I started to switch so every time it's like okay another Ryobi battery died buying another Milwaukee tool so now I maybe have six batteries for Milwaukee maybe maybe a few more than that
but there are certain tools from the Milwaukee lineup that I just are spot on, and that router is one of them. I've heard a lot of, I'm gonna call it hearsay because I have not experienced it at all, I've heard a lot of people complain about the collet on that router. I've never had an issue. I have that battery-powered Milwaukee router.
I have the fixed base attached to my StableMax Woodpecker's router table, the little benchtop router table. And it's basically just an extended base plate at that point, which works great because then I have a router with an extended base plate and then it just snaps into the router table and I can run that as a little benchtop router table. I also have the plunge base for it that I can pull the motor out if I need to. I don't do that very often. Usually when I do that,
I grabbed one of my three Colt routers that I have because I have, I also have the plunge bass for that. But that...
from them is a freaking gem. I love that. I also love their, I have their 40 volt chainsaw. That's wonderful as well. yeah. So I mean, have, have, you know, from the Milwaukee lineup, I have the driver, impact driver, the drill, the router table or the router.
John Doyle (44:21.941) Do you happen to remember? This is John Boyle. This is our next joining. Do you happen to remember the name of the company that we use for snow removal and stuff? don't. Do you think Phil would know? Maybe. We're in the middle of a podcast though. Can we like email him? Oh, absolutely. It is no rush.
Phil (44:23.03) yeah?
Logan Wittmer (44:37.419) their circular saw, which I use for breaking down lumber, works really, really nicely. And then I did buy, I just spent a minute talking about how I hate knockoff China stuff, but I did buy a generic brand heat gun that works with the Milwaukee batteries. Yes. Yep, and I really like it. So.
Phil (44:57.093) Really? Okay.
Phil (45:03.823) All right, so speaking of generic brand, would you consider getting
quote unquote knockoff batteries for your cordless tools. Cause I know I'm familiar with several people who have done that on things.
Logan Wittmer (45:24.138) Yes, I will say no because simply for the fact that I went up to Milwaukee this year and I saw their battery lab, like I think it is, if there's anything that makes Milwaukee different than other brands, it's their battery technology.
Phil (45:41.584) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (45:42.71) So I know exactly I seen exactly what they're doing with their batteries They have a giant like one floor They're building is their battery labs and you walk in there and there are just I mean there are think of server racks Okay, like that hold servers there are rows of these I mean you feel like you're in like the Google database center and All they are are battery cells that are hooked up and they're running depletion cycles They're running fully charged fully deplete fully charged
fully deplete then they have ones that are chilled down to negative 20 degrees that they're running fully charged fully deplete like they put their money into battery technology and I think that is obviously I got burnt on the road we stuff as those started to die but I think that's what makes them different so that's that's where I
I won't buy a knockoff battery, but buying the generic works with Milwaukee battery heat gun for the 35 bucks it was versus the 120 that the Milwaukee was, and the Milwaukee one honestly didn't have great reviews. like, for the couple times a year I need a heat gun, here we go.
Phil (47:00.94) So I'll put that out there for the larger audience too, is whether you've purchased and what your experience is with third party, shall we say, batteries for cordless tools. Because that usually is the weak point or the hook on those kinds of things is like you can get, you know, like a five pack of tools, two batteries and a charger.
for, you know, 250, let's just say. But then if you go to buy individual batteries, they're like $100 a piece.
So.
Logan Wittmer (47:40.595) So, I mean, great example of this. I'm looking currently at the Facebook, the Amazon Black Friday sales that are available right now. And there is a Weightly, I don't know what that is, Weightly two pack 12 volt, six amp replacement batteries compatible with Milwaukee power tools, not made in Milwaukee in big parentheses.
Phil (48:05.319) you
Logan Wittmer (48:07.306) for 30 bucks for two of the batteries. So that is significantly cheaper than a Milwaukee battery is. So, you know, to each their own. I will never, I'll never poke fun at people that spend their money certain ways unless you're buying a shopsmith. If you wanna buy knockout stuff, cool.
Phil (48:12.963) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (48:34.803) Yeah, I think there's, I think there's, it'd be interesting to try it and see how it works, you know?
Phil (48:43.665) John, what about you?
John Doyle (48:46.058) yeah, I'm kind of the same way. I would have done it probably in the past and, know, just paid for a life lesson type of thing where you get what you pay for. So for the, for the most part. So.
Phil (48:55.015) Right.
Yeah. Cause for example, I have several tools in Bosch is 12 volt line, which I really like. there's not a ton of tools there, but frankly, for what I use those tools for, they work really great. but I know that those are more of like the, the round like stick kind of battery packs. And then online you can find.
Logan Wittmer (49:24.607) Mm-hmm.
Phil (49:29.255) battery packs that have a little greater capacity, they're a little, usually have some kind of a small brick attached to it that's on there. So there's like that option to give you longer run time by going the third party route. that's where I've had folk that I know. Yeah. Yeah. Cause the Milwaukee one is like very, that battery pack in their 12 volt line is very similar to the, to the Bosch one.
Logan Wittmer (49:44.723) And that's what those Milwaukee ones were, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (49:53.074) Yeah, it's like that cartridge style, yeah. And I will say, just because I'm a fan of the Milwaukee 18-volt line, I hate their 12-volt stuff. Like...
Phil (49:55.482) Yeah.
Phil (50:06.321) No.
Logan Wittmer (50:07.348) Not like, that's a very broad statement that I hate their 12 volt stuff. I do not like their 12 volt driver. We did a test a couple years ago of 12 volt drills and I hated it. felt like I was holding this coffee cup when I was trying to drive something. The handle was the size of a soda drink can, which just felt very uncomfortable to me.
John Doyle (50:07.898) .
Phil (50:19.559) yeah, yeah.
Phil (50:35.068) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (50:37.302) 12-volt DeWALT and I love it. you know just because I get being into one system and saying yeah I'm just gonna stick with one system like I do get that but I don't I don't mind having a couple of different ones.
Phil (50:49.553) Right.
Yeah, I think it's different if it's like different voltages, because it's not like you're trading out batteries between it. Like you have your, like let's say a 12 volt line for utility grade stuff, and then you're stepping up into something that's like in the 18 volt, because it's heavier. I think you can have, like I do, because I have the 12 volt Bosch stuff, and then I have a handful of 18 volt Ryobi things.
Logan Wittmer (50:56.638) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (51:16.562) Yeah, I honestly, I still have a few Ryobi things. I kept my portable tire inflator. I have a couple batteries that are still working. So it's like, that's what I use as my portable tire inflator. If I need to go like fill up the skid loader thing, zip tie the trigger on and then walk away and come back 40 minutes later. Or like my, my Sawzall.
I still use the Ryobi Sawzall because I don't use one very often. I have a couple corded versions, but if I need a cordless one, that's what I use. you know, I'm not, yeah, I'm not like get rid of it all and only go to one. I do get people that want to do that just to limit what they have in the shop, but.
John Doyle (52:02.19) Yeah. Yeah. I saw a variety stuff too, but it's like, yeah, I'm not going to reinvest. I'll keep using what I have, but I'm not going to reinvest in batteries for them. When they're gone, they're gone.
Logan Wittmer (52:15.891) So if anybody is interested, this is kind of a good one, I think.
And I hate these clamps, but I think we had this discussion a couple of weeks ago. The Pony Jorgensen pipe clamp ends, the three quarter inch ones, a two pack is on sale for Black Friday. I talked about getting a couple of those just so I had a pair of long clamps in the shop, because I had to steal the shop ones to glue up this table.
Phil (52:35.227) No. Okay.
Phil (52:43.109) Right.
Logan Wittmer (52:50.525) There's, I mean, there's some interesting stuff and there's some certain things that are, you know, I'm looking at just flipping through all of these sales. There are some push blocks that, you know, clearly are ripoffs of the micro jig ones. So there are good on the surface, what appear to be good deals for people that want to get into something like that.
Phil (53:26.023) Okay, do we have a bonus segment here?
Logan Wittmer (53:29.392) No, this is down the
Phil (53:31.363) Okay, down the road. Okay. All right. I want to know what you have for your Black Friday tool deals. Is it a cordless tool? An upgrade somewhere? An add-on to your existing system? Let us know. Again, also, what would it take for you to switch cordless tool ecosystems? And what about knockoff batteries?
Love to hear from you. Send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com or put a comment in our YouTube channel, Shop Notes podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Leave reviews because that's how we get out to even more woodworkers like yourself to join the conversation. Happy Thanksgiving everybody. We'll see you next week.
