Not much to add to the topics discussed here. Looking forward to hearing from listeners on Design topics we can cover in Woodsmith and Popular Woodworking.
Tool Cart Update — Complete
Here's how the tool cart ended up that I built with my son. Super pleased with it.
Transcript
I know you won't read this.
Phil Huber (00:08.486) Welcome to the ShopNotes Podcast. It's episode number 262. Today's episode with me your host Phil along with Logan and John. We're to reach into the proverbial mailbag here today and see what comes out. Hope you enjoy today's episode. As always, you can join in with your own questions comments and smart remarks the email address is woodsmith at woodsmith.com or You can subscribe to the YouTube version of this podcast whether you end up watching it there or not We're listening to it. You can leave a comment. That's a great place for us to be able to connect with all of our listeners and viewers, so Let's dive in the first one is actually an email one
that comes from Mr. Tom Lyons. He says, hey guys, love the podcast. I realized I could totally look this up and I'm sure some random AI would do a good job, but I like hearing the banter. So I understand Logan has a pattern makers lathe that's pretty big, like 11 feet long. So what is so different about what a pattern maker does and how they do it that they need such large tools? Thanks all, keep it up.
Logan Wittmer (01:38.222) So do you want to hear my AI generated answer for this?
Phil Huber (01:43.058) ...Not really.
Logan Wittmer (01:44.142) I don't have one, so I'm glad you said no. So what? So I don't think that that laid this. mean, overall length is probably close to 11 feet, but I think the bed's like six foot on it, six foot between centers. The reason that pattern makers had such big tools, big equipment in their shop.
John Doyle (01:45.706) you
Logan Wittmer (02:11.212) just because I see John smirking at that. The reason they have such big equipment is because if you think about what a pattern maker does, they're making patterns or they were making patterns for anything that was cast iron. So.
somebody had to make a pattern for an 11 foot long pattern makers lathe bed, right? So like you have all of these long tools or you have all these patterns that are making potentially giant patterns. I'm not saying every pattern maker did or does. but if you think about
the turn of the century when the industrial revolution was going on, we were making a lot of cast iron in the United States. We were making cast iron parts for, you know, tanker ships, you know, the Titanic had cast iron parts in its engine room. Like a pattern maker had to make patterns for the Titanic's engine block, right? So there are giant patterns that are made. Some of those processes
might involve putting something on a lay that that's that big, you know, if you had a bronze, think of like a bronze sleeve bearing that went around the drive shaft to a ship like the Titanic, you know, you probably had a bronze bearing that was six foot long, two and a half foot in diameter or two foot in diameter, and you had to make a pattern for that bronze bearing to be cast into. That's why they had stuff like that.
They also had to do some of the oddities that pattern makers had to do that make, think, make their tools so cool is that you had to like, you were machining wood to metalworking tolerances. So, know, in metalworking, thou is pretty big. In woodworking, a thou is absolutely nothing. Like it's a 64th is...
Logan Wittmer (04:16.18) fairly minor in most cases in woodworking. They have, you know, they're jointers. The beds would be able to tilt in relation to each other. So you could, you know, joint in draft angles so that the mold, the pattern would release from the sand as it was getting removed. Stuff like that. Like just so it's fascinating. Turn of the century. I probably would have died from something like typhoid fever or something, but I also
couldn't see myself being a pattern maker. Because I think it's just, it's so cool.
Phil Huber (04:52.168) Yeah, I mean, because you have some of the patterns from
Logan Wittmer (04:57.784) from Norm? Yeah, yeah.
Phil Huber (04:58.918) Norm, there you go. And those are kind of cool to see. And then the rules that he had with it for shrink rules and stuff. So that was pretty cool.
Logan Wittmer (05:07.214) shrink rules.
Logan Wittmer (05:11.404) Yeah. And I mean, just to put that in perspective, like shrink rules or something, they're really fun to mess with. When I have classes in the shop, it's really fun to mess with people because you hand them these rules. You're like, all right, you're using this one. You're using this one. It's like, Hey, you got to double check your rules first. They double check them next to each other and they're way off. because you have like shrink rules are for pattern makers because iron, steel, aluminum, bronze, everything you'd cast or everything you'd make patterns that would be cast out of.
it all shrinks as it cools. So you use the shrink rule because then your pattern that you built to your 12 inch scale on your shrink rule would shrink to 12 inches when it was cooling. So you have a know eighth inch shrink, you have a quarter inch shrink, there's a 3 16th shrink because all the metal and metal alloys shrink at different rates. So it's fascinating. I nerd out on this stuff. I love this.
Phil Huber (06:15.26) All right, let's see what else we got here.
Phil Huber (06:21.896) All right.
Floyd Olden says, shop smith owner here, there actually is a planer accessory for the machine. Some of us also have benchtop planers too. And then in parentheses, mandatory response from a shop smith owner.
Logan Wittmer (06:40.45) Yep.
Phil Huber (06:44.016) love it. And puppy doc Bob says in response there, I think Logan secretly wants a shop Smith and I happen to have one I would donate to him just to bring him over to the dark side. I mean, for listeners out there, Logan is moving his metalworking stuff out of his shop. So he is going to have some space.
Logan Wittmer (06:56.595) Absolutely not.
Logan Wittmer (07:05.617) No, no, absolutely I'm not. And clearly, clearly our video editors are not in the room with you right now because they would be throwing stuff at you. When we have to film at my shop, it was like, there's so much crap in here. There is deal with it. So. However, I'm going to throw this out there, OK?
Phil Huber (07:26.93) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (07:27.992) Shop Smith was bought by new owners.
Logan Wittmer (07:35.63) I appears that they are making a pretty big push to start doing some new things with shop Smith or new marketing or whatever.
I am not opposed to talking with them.
John Doyle (07:54.084) You heard it here first. We've opened the lines of communication for diplomacy.
Logan Wittmer (07:55.746) This is my concession.
Phil Huber (08:00.327) Like having them on the podcast, is that what you're saying? Talk with them?
Logan Wittmer (08:06.378) Would not, mean, talk, talk with them about getting a new shop Smith in somewhere and messing with it and figuring it out. You know, I'm, if Bob said I was shop Smith curious, I would tell him to shut his filthy mouth, but he wouldn't might not be wrong because, because as much as I hate
Phil Huber (08:14.802) doing a collaboration, yeah.
John Doyle (08:26.276) you
Logan Wittmer (08:34.814) one trick ponies. Shopsmith is the opposite, right?
Phil Huber (08:43.431) Yeah, I don't know.
John Doyle (08:44.664) Yeah. I think my problem is I'm just lazy. Like I can't be bothered to even change a router bit. Like if I haven't changed a router bit, it's like, I'm done. I'm done for the day. I'm calling it. I've lost momentum. Yep. Sorry. Every, we got to have 10 different routers with 10 different router bits in them. I'm not going to change any router bits. So changing over a whole machine just couldn't be bothered. So
Logan Wittmer (08:49.838) Shit.
Yeah, just like, supposed to be a chamfer. It's going to be a cove.
Phil Huber (09:11.304) Yeah. Yeah. I get that, especially, you know, especially when we look at our forefathers and what they went through to do stuff. So.
Logan Wittmer (09:14.338) That's funny.
Phil Huber (09:25.99) All right, a couple of other questions. Hey Woodworks says, how did Phil's toolbox turn out? I'd love to see some pictures. I'm working on a toolbox workbench build right now myself. Love the show, thanks guys. Yeah, the mechanics toolbox that I was working on with my son, finished that up shortly after New Year. I'll post some photos in the show notes page to go along with this.
I think it turned out really cool. We were going to do a hammered paint finish on the whole thing, but as I was prepping false fronts, my son decided that he would rather have just the bare plywood, which I think offers a nice contrast to the look of it. And then the continuous aluminum pull that we have on there, I think makes a good look.
I mean, we can always paint the drawer fronts down the road if that's the route we want to go with it. But yeah, it's done. And it's massive. It's like 40 something inches high and like 56 inches wide and like 26 inches deep or something like that. So it's a beast. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (10:38.316) That is big. That is big. Like as I'm working on this outfeed table and it's like 40 by 48, that's big for like for a case piece.
Phil Huber (10:47.986) Yeah, yeah, but it's super cool to see it to see it done and then to have like the really thick oak top on it. It's a saying around here, but it definitely looks like it could take a punch.
Logan Wittmer (11:03.778) Yep.
Phil Huber (11:06.952) So yeah, I'll put those out there. Let's see. Jacob Schenker says, Hey, what's going on with the shop updates? Those seem to be lagging recently. Also any chance we can get a shop tour of the production shop. The one that's out there seems quite dated.
And yeah, we've been filming for the TV show for the last few weeks and it gets to be Thursday afternoon. And then John and I look at each other with the look of, we forgot about the update.
Although to be fair, Mark and Dylan have been in a little bit of a lull, oddly enough, we're kind of ahead on some projects and behind on others. So it created kind of a quiet time in the shop. So we'll get that one started. By the time this podcast goes out, you'll have seen one yesterday. So there you go. But thanks for checking in. And yeah, right.
Logan Wittmer (12:04.398) You heard it here,
Phil Huber (12:11.364) shop tour of the production shop would be a good one because Mark's definitely redone a bunch of stuff in there.
Phil Huber (12:22.342) And then Mad Max 72 says, because last week's episode we talked about design and adaptations and iterations on projects and things like that. Mad Max 72 says, woodworking magazines have gotten away from the topic of design in favor of build. They don't talk about proportions or grain direction, et cetera.
The current Wood Talk spent several minutes talking about topics that are no longer covered.
Logan Wittmer (12:53.996) Hmm, I'll have to text those guys and see if they can give me a synopsis so I don't have to listen to it.
Phil Huber (13:00.208) Right. I was going to say the best part about the internet is being able to have a statement like that come out. And then we three who have not listened to that episode can respond to something that we have not heard.
John Doyle (13:11.716) Yeah.
Phil Huber (13:16.924) I think it's exactly what the internet was created for, was for this kind of moment.
Logan Wittmer (13:20.162) Yeah. To talk about stuff that you don't know about.
Phil Huber (13:24.262) Right, yeah. I mean, I think the design stuff is there. It's just buried in the project article.
Logan Wittmer (13:27.064) solid.
John Doyle (13:27.843) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (13:35.591) Yeah, for sure. And you might have to kind of read between the lines in some cases, right? Like, why? I don't know. Yeah. I think you kind of have to read between the lines. You have to know what you're looking for. If you go into it saying, I want to know why this design works, I think you kind of look at it. And...
say okay it's worse because of these proportions and stuff like that. I think whoever said that is accurate. We don't talk about it as much anymore. I also think that
I'm going to say this, but I don't necessarily mean it. lot of the great designers are dead, right?
John Doyle (14:23.618) I'm right here. I can hear you. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (14:25.166) Well, I mean, like the people that their designs were very iconic and just timeless, like they're not around. There are very few of them around anymore. know. Yeah. That's right. Like Michael Fortune still around, but like Wendell Castle's gone and like there's a lot of.
John Doyle (14:32.611) Yeah.
John Doyle (14:40.312) You know what? Just wait till I'm dead and then they'll be talking.
Logan Wittmer (14:54.54) designers that are not here anymore that I think you'd say are the iconic designers, you know.
Phil Huber (15:05.479) I w-
Also agreeing with that topic, but I think part of the reason that it's not always talked about is that it's a pretty.
Phil Huber (15:20.454) It's one of those things where people have an idea in their head of when you talk about design that it's this, but it's so fuzzy around the edges that it's tough to nail down. Like when I say, let's talk about design, like Logan's idea of design is different than John's idea of design is different than my idea. I also feel like it's a, it's one of those topics that's really subjective.
because what makes a good design for one person is like, why do you make such weirdo looking stuff? Part of Fine Woodworking is celebrating their 50th anniversary and they've had some new makers or something like that. And a lot of the furniture pieces that they show on there look super weird to me. It's just these...
Logan Wittmer (16:01.326) Oh, 100%. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (16:20.046) No offense, they just look really weird.
Phil Huber (16:21.192) which isn't to say.
Right, because it's so unfamiliar that it's tough to be able to put it into context and like, how would somebody inspired by that build something that just doesn't look like a bad copy, you know?
Logan Wittmer (16:42.818) Well, that and yes.
Phil Huber (16:42.95) So it's those kinds of things that make it feel like, Logan, you love shaker furniture, but there's a bunch of people out. So if you did an article on the design of shaker furniture, there's gonna be a number of people that are gonna be like, boring.
Logan Wittmer (16:48.558) Exactly.
John Doyle (16:57.76) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (16:58.038) Yeah, exactly. And it's like one of those things where what looks good to you, you said it, what looks good to you doesn't mean it looks good to everybody. So cool. I'll do an article on shaker design. You know, we'll, do proportions. We'll do material thickness. Talk about that stuff. You know, my wife would be like, gross. Like, I don't like shaker stuff. Like it's not modern enough for me. You know, or,
there's I think like Dylan has a very distinct design style. And he's very interested in kind of the I'm gonna call it flat pack style furniture, where from his schooling and stuff, it's like a lot of the stuff that he has is is plywood case piece work doesn't appeal to me at all, but it's well done, you know, and I'm not like
So if we were in a seminar and Dylan signed out design, I'm probably leaving the room. Sorry, Dylan. It just doesn't appeal to me. You know what I mean? So it's hard.
Phil Huber (18:09.596) Right. And the piece, the articles about that, as important as they are, have to compete with other articles.
which all sounds like really lame excuses or can sound that way. But to be honest, mean, that's a big part of it is trying to figure out how you write about it. Because I know for a long time, every so often somebody would, one of the editors around here would propose an article about complementary materials. And it would break down almost instantly because they would propose
Logan Wittmer (18:39.852) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (18:46.31) some complimentary materials and somebody else would be like, no, those look terrible together.
Phil Huber (18:54.054) And it's like, you know, like what principles, yeah, what principles do you draw from it when you're making complementary material, you know, using complementary materials in a piece?
Logan Wittmer (18:56.366) That's your opinion.
Logan Wittmer (19:01.944) Yeah.
Phil Huber (19:07.078) You know, like the one of the projects I'm working on for an upcoming issue of Woodsmith is a small vanity cabinet that Dylan designed. The one for the magazine has a cherry case, cherry plywood case and a walnut top. And I've heard in the past that cherry and walnut shouldn't go together because they're too similar and then they'll age and fade to the same color. And yet when I go out to the photo studio and look at that vanity,
It looks amazing.
John Doyle (19:39.3) Some people think that white oak shouldn't go with red oak plywood, but you know, you know what, let's mix it up.
Phil Huber (19:44.975) Exactly right. That's
Logan Wittmer (19:48.47) And everybody can have their opinion even if yours is wrong, John.
John Doyle (19:57.804) Choices were made.
Phil Huber (19:59.655) Right. All that to say, and I responded to the comment, is like, what are some topics that you would love to see us cover? And, you know, we can take a look at that. We're always looking for ideas to be helpful on designing projects. I think that's why we try and put some of the design stuff within the article, is to talk about different things like that. I know for a while in popular woodworking,
You guys had a standing column with George Walker. Design matters.
Logan Wittmer (20:31.566) Design matters. Yep. Yep. was actually just looking through some of those this week. So, yeah. I mean, and I think it's, who did I have? I had somebody that was starting to put together an article on golden ratio, like the golden ratio and stuff like that. And like the Fibonacci sequence and like all this stuff. And about
month into it they're like yeah we're not gonna do this there's like this is just a can of worms like can't really get much substance here and it's like yeah I know I get it that's why I don't do it so and as you said Phil it's like it's one of those things where if you do a design article it takes something else out of the magazine and surprisingly
I generally, at least on the Popwood side, we generally have more content than we have pages. So there's a lot of times where stuff gets a little short changed anyways because...
that article might really need, you know, whether it's a project article that might need 14 or 16 pages, but I got to cut it down to 10. And even that feels like that's a lot of pages dedicated to that project, but like to thoroughly explain it, that's what I would need. I got to trim it anyways. It's like this issue I'm working on right now. I wanted to do a shaping, like shaping curves by hand.
Phil Huber (21:51.558) Right. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (21:59.982) you know, like what are some of the approaches to shaping curves? How do you shape curves? How do you get a smoother result? Stuff like that. I had to cut that entire article out of the magazine because I just don't have room for it. Um, you know, we have to, we got to make room for, for advertising. We make room for our other articles. We've got to make room for the projects, which I think is probably what a lot of people buy the magazines for. So it's a, it's just one of those things.
John Doyle (22:22.34) Mm hmm. The other thing is, it's like with design or any topic, it's like we've been around long enough where it's like, didn't we just write about that? But then you look back, it's like, oh, that was 10 years ago or five years ago. So it's like, oh, maybe we can talk about it again.
Logan Wittmer (22:33.134) Yeah.
Phil Huber (22:35.016) Ha
Phil Huber (22:43.43) Yeah, and I think there's also certain processes that we do that are invisible to us because it's just so second nature.
whether it's designing a project or even construction techniques, you just dive into something because you've built that into your workflow in a way that it's just kind of second nature.
Logan Wittmer (23:11.522) Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Phil Huber (23:17.392) Yeah, bring it on. Let us know what you got for project ideas or article ideas. What about design would you want to know? Find Woodworking has a feature that they do or department that they do periodically called designer's notebook, where they're kind of go in with a specific designer, finding out how she or he developed the style that they work in.
or kind of the origin story of a piece and could go into some deeper dives on that in a way that I think is probably more relevant than generic design topics.
Logan Wittmer (24:01.43) You know, that's a great name for a department. We should use that somewhere. Designers Notebook.
Phil Huber (24:05.874) designer's notebook. Yeah, that's weird. Never heard that one before.
Logan Wittmer (24:08.782) Very weird.
Phil Huber (24:15.644) Speaking of designer's notebook, Logan, where are you at with your outfeed table?
Logan Wittmer (24:21.486) Uh, so like, don't know why it's like, we talked a couple of weeks ago about, I'm like, yeah, what project am I going to do next? I don't know. I got to finish stuff for this church and stuff. All of a sudden I'm knees deep in this outfeed table. Don't know how that happened. Um, was it the best? Sometimes you just have to build what you want to build, not what you should be building.
So this is what I wanted to build. So this is what I'm building. So I am, I have all my legs cut, all the joinery is done for the most part. So I did the entire, so it's built the same way as my Shaker workbench. So there are kind of these, you know, legs, top and bottom rails forming like a bent, like a timber frame bent. And then those are connected with rails as well. The material is poplar.
It is two and three quarter inch square stock, all of it. Panels, so my workbench is cherry. The panels in the workbench are cherry as well. Because I am going to paint the base on this thing, I did poplar and MDF panels. So I'm doing the same beveled kind of raised panel look, which means there's going to be quite a bit of prep to get that beveled edge on the MDF to paint nicely, I think.
So I'm going kind of take, again, one of those things where I'm going to take advantage of this, put the article together on prepping MDF for paint or getting a good painted finish on MDF. May never see the light of day, but I'm going to shoot it because I'm doing it anyways. And yeah, so joinery's all cut, did all of the joinery with Shaper Origin and Bench Pilot. So as Colin was down here working on these little...
sofa side tables last week. I was just plopping parts in, hitting run, walking away. Come back, wait, stand there, listen to the shop, be like, I don't hear wood getting cut right now. I hear the router running, but I don't hear wood getting cut. So you just walk, push the router out of the way and put a new piece in and let it keep going. So very, very cool. Very easy way to do that joinery. So the loose tenons in this
Phil Huber (26:35.08) All right.
Logan Wittmer (26:42.642) mind the stocks two and three quarter square. The loose tenons are two inches tall, an inch thick, and an inch into each part. I probably could have went a little bit deeper on those. Probably could have went an inch and a half, which is the throw on shape or origin. So the z-axis you have an inch and a half to use. Probably could have went a little bit deeper. I was running at a bit length though.
and didn't want to wait on a new bit to show up. And I think an inch deep for a loose more loose tendon is plenty. So those are all cut. got the middle middle bent glued up the two end panels, the two end bends. So there's three of them total. One cubby makes drawers. One is a door. And then.
I have side entry off the side of it. So if you're standing at the end of the table saw, there is a cubby on the right hand side for like cross cut sleds to slide into. I have not glued up to two end panels because I am waiting on, I ordered when I did the work bench to cut that raised panel. I cut a rabbit first to create the tongue.
And then I used a 90 degree V bit to route the chamfer along that panel, if that makes sense. Works great, just multiple setups to do said operation. I ordered a 45 degree bevel, a 45 degree panel raising bit, I guess. So that is on its way from California. So I'm gonna, I'm kind of waiting to.
to do those. And the reason I decided to order the bit was that I think I'm going to keep this same style of cabinet and same style of construction for my work, for my, let's call it a tool hutch behind the workbench. So I figured I'll get, I'll get additional use out of it. So yeah. So I am currently at a little bit of a standstill, just waiting on that bit to show up.
Phil Huber (28:54.651) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (29:06.926) I do have a photo to take this afternoon of, I really like this lambs tongue detail on the corners. So you do a big chamfer on the corners and then a little lambs tongue to cap it off on the top and bottom. I'm going to do a quick photo of that. And yeah, then I'm going to try something I have not used in the past. I was reading a bit. Now you would think that as
magazine editors for woodworking. know, we just, anybody that thinks we know everything about woodworking and everything about finishing and everything about routing and like, they'd be wrong. Like we do a lot of research too. We do a lot of reading and a lot of research, to semi and yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that, but like we're, we're, doing that type of stuff. So I was kind of reading like, from a professional standpoint, how are people getting, cause
John Doyle (29:52.172) And so I'm just trying it out and see if it works.
Logan Wittmer (30:06.016) you know, cabinet shops paint MDF all the time. So what are they using to seal? So I'm kind of going down this rabbit hole. And I kind of found the consensus is that you want to use a shellac primer for MDF. I've never used it before. That sob was expensive. A gallon of the shellac primer was 80 bucks at Menard's, which
Phil Huber (30:34.176) yeah, just the the bin or whatever the Zinsser stuff. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (30:36.27) the bin. Yep. Yep. It's the it's the bin. Yep. It's the bin shellac sealer. So I'm going to try it. We'll see. Being shellac based, it dries in like 15 minutes. So I figured this is going to be a pretty quick like and it should not should not be grain raising. I would not think. So I'm going to try to figure out if I want to prepaint the panels before they go in or
It's MDF, it's poplar, it's gonna move a little bit after it's been glued up.
I wonder if I just glue it together and paint the thing after it's all glued together. I don't know. So that's that's kind of where I'm at right now is like, do I do pre prep and paint before I put the panels in? I don't know. Trying to trying to decide that. Then the other, know, if I was just building this without doing photos, I probably would do that. But at the same time, I don't want to be trying to take photos of doing a glue up with bright white panels.
because that's going to be very bright.
So we'll see, but yeah. I did in my...
Logan Wittmer (31:56.204) middle age, I decided I did not want to pick up a full sheet of MDF at Menards, so I paid the premium to get two 4x4 sheets of MDF.
John Doyle (32:06.636) you
Logan Wittmer (32:08.91) I was there the other day and it was windy out and I'm like, I really like a sheet of MDFs like what 88 pounds, something like that. it's like, I really don't want to try and pick that up and put that in the back end of my truck by myself. So two, four by four sheets. is, I think it ended up being like 10 bucks more sheet to do that. But I'm like, you know what, for not wrestling with it and not digging up a corner. Cause usually when I do that, I end up digging up a corner.
Phil Huber (32:36.466) little bit.
Logan Wittmer (32:37.154) Yep, yep, so.
Logan Wittmer (32:45.55) So had to make 32 little tenants. That was the biggest issue with doing this. They're a little loose tenants. Yeah. So.
Phil Huber (32:45.928) All right, John.
Phil Huber (32:50.693) the little loose tenants. Yeah.
John Doyle (32:56.044) Um, you talking about Menards just made me think of this, but usually this is the time of year when I'm like, Oh, it's February starting to get warmer. Days are getting longer. The Menards rebate will be coming back soon. And I, I, I've been looking around. I haven't heard anything. Do you guys know if the 11 % rebate is coming back or cause they had that lawsuit or is that on pause?
Logan Wittmer (33:22.43) I would think that they would have a hard fight if they did not bring it back.
John Doyle (33:27.62) Right. I just made you think of it because I've seen they've done like the bag sale and then they I've seen like individual rebates lately. So, and then with the lawsuit, I was like, are they not going to bring it back? Like.
Logan Wittmer (33:41.078) I think, so they do this, the cycle happens every year. if you follow the Menards rebate Facebook page, like I do, people talk about this because it is, it's, it's, it's a cycle. They, they kill the rebate right before Christmas, I think, like October, maybe, then early January is the bag sale. and then usually they do like the, you know,
John Doyle (33:51.222) Yeah.
John Doyle (33:58.934) Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (34:09.856) individual item rebates some of them are free after rebate whatever and then they turn around and do the do the other one
John Doyle (34:20.26) I'm just, got scared there for a little bit, so. And if people didn't know, Menards had a class action lawsuit because somebody didn't like the way that the rebate was advertised as like a sale, so there was a settlement with the states and all that, so. I've just been looking around, because I know it's about that time of year where it would be coming back and I just hadn't heard anything yet, so. I'll hang in there. Right.
Logan Wittmer (34:45.93) One person's gonna ruin it for the rest of us.
Phil Huber (34:48.712) Great. Yep.
John Doyle (34:49.464) That's some of our people's main income in retirement. Yeah, yeah. Between that and Coles Cash, that's our cryptocurrency. So that's what feeds the children. Right. That and Culver's free scoopies. So.
Phil Huber (34:53.096) Yeah, there's 11 % that 11 % growth year over year. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (34:53.612) Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Yeah.
Phil Huber (35:02.248) Probably the original cryptocurrency is.
Logan Wittmer (35:04.814) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (35:09.902) People that don't live in the Midwest are so lost right now.
Phil Huber (35:16.444) Yeah, but that's how we're going to survive the apocalypse is that kind of
Logan Wittmer (35:19.47) That's true.
John Doyle (35:20.384) Yep, that's currency. that was my off topic, on topic question.
Phil Huber (35:29.96) No, totally relevant, because I just got a few rebate forms come back to me. So now I have some, I got some walking around money, if you know what I mean.
John Doyle (35:34.809) Yeah.
Yep, I just got one last week too. was like, is this the last one? Do I need to frame this?
Logan Wittmer (35:44.216) So if anybody is interested, this week's free after rebate, I'm on the Menards free after rebate Facebook page and we have the Proud Grill Smart Ignition electric lighters are free after rebate. Couple different versions of those. Looks like we got some sliding cabinet locks out of that stage of our life, thank God. So yeah, I just wanted to see if anybody was talking about it coming back. Haven't seen it, so.
John Doyle (36:04.26) you
Phil Huber (36:14.12) Well, I wonder if they're also trying to pace themselves on the 11 % off, because around COVID, they kind of left it on for a long time. And now we got to we got to wean people off of it a little bit.
John Doyle (36:24.11) Yeah.
We got used to it. Right. We got used to that Midwest welfare. So now they gotta wean us off.
Logan Wittmer (36:26.764) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (36:32.328) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (36:35.75) So two days ago, people are saying last year, the 11 % picked back up on February 14th. So they are guessing February 15th this year is the consensus.
John Doyle (36:43.204) Okay. All right. We'll see.
Logan Wittmer (36:52.056) Gotta haul off all my shopping for another four days.
where you do your grocery shopping in Iowa too. Is that Menards?
John Doyle (36:59.844) Yeah.
Phil Huber (37:04.36) There's a lot there. There's a lot there. John, what do you got going on for projects?
John Doyle (37:09.216) so we've wrapped up the porch rocker last week for the TV show. So a little hiatus as we, kind of wrap up,
latest issue of wood smith so i got all my readers tips done and drawn and handed off and now i am working on designing a display box with a glass top was my assignment so
Logan Wittmer (37:38.552) Okay.
John Doyle (37:42.434) I don't know what we're actually, that's the thing. That is important. That, so driving. So I don't know if if I should talk to whoever's going to photograph this and see what they want displayed or if I build it generally. And then we decide after the fact what's being displayed, which is always fun. So.
Logan Wittmer (37:43.03) what's being displayed, because I think that's important. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (38:00.33) Yeah. Or do you, do you build it with like inserts? So it's like you build it and then you can put inserts in it. like watches or, you know, I'm sitting here looking at my, my pipe stand. Yeah.
John Doyle (38:04.643) Yeah.
Right. Cause that, that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of what I was looking at. was like, yeah, I've seen like watches, like, Nate Gruca here, who does the editing. He collects pins. I've saw display cases with pens. You could do.
Logan Wittmer (38:20.622) Yup.
John Doyle (38:23.318) memorabilia, coins, you could put inserts for jewelry into it, I guess. So I didn't know if I was just build it generally and then we kind of decide on the insert afterwards or but
Logan Wittmer (38:37.824) In the Midwest, we call these tchotchkes.
John Doyle (38:40.644) Put a little precious moments in them maybe, you know, those are coming back country cousins. Who knows?
Logan Wittmer (38:43.63) You
Yeah. Yep. cousins.
Phil Huber (38:47.91) Maybe? Yeah.
your precious moments in Willow Tree mashup.
John Doyle (38:52.504) So that's, right. So that's what I've been working on. And I always find that like Logan's building a big outfeed table. I find it harder to design for the smaller projects because then the details matter so much because it's so small. And it's like, where do you go with the details? So I always find it harder.
Logan Wittmer (39:06.211) Yeah.
Phil Huber (39:23.464) That'd be cool. Yeah, because I did a small display case for.
from our first family trip to Gulf Shores. There was a display case to put the kids collected a bajillion seashells. And so we ended up sorting through the best of those. And so I made a case that sits on a bookshelf, but be able to show those off at like a little mirrored bottom so you could see underneath and all of that kind of stuff.
Logan Wittmer (39:43.011) Yeah.
John Doyle (39:54.372) So yeah, so you could go kind of like a shadow box type theme for the display.
Phil Huber (39:59.709) Yeah, because I think that would be cool is to be able to you know, store or store and display, you know, three dimensional objects, not just like concert tickets and things like that.
Logan Wittmer (40:13.646) Yeah, I've seen ones where people so kind of in my outside of work thing I'm out, I'm in the outdoors a lot, and in the Midwest for sure.
that group of people is generally into collecting like arrowheads and stuff, like arrowhead hunting and stuff. And I've seen, I've seen display boxes where people have all their arrowheads in them. And then a lot of the times the boxes will have, you know, the glass top or whatever, but then they'll also have a drawer underneath where it's like, you pull the drawer out to store additional items, which is kind of cool, I think. So you can do, you know, a couple of drawers in it, you know, store the, the off display items, I guess, you know, the broken points go down there. So.
Phil Huber (40:30.922) yep.
Phil Huber (40:55.452) Yeah, I think that would be kind of cool because then it adds something more to it just being so that it's not just a shadow box.
Logan Wittmer (40:58.062) Yeah.
Phil Huber (41:08.328) All right. There's my question for everybody. What would you put in a small little display case like that? Is there something that you collect or have picked up along the way in life's travels to put inside of it? Maybe like some old cell phones, you know, get your Palm Pilot out, your Motorola Razr, your chocolate, put that in there.
Logan Wittmer (41:29.952) all the loose screws and bolts from switching over your shop Smith that you don't remember where they went.
Phil Huber (41:36.39) you
John Doyle (41:36.984) There you go.
Phil Huber (41:40.232) Yep, all that kind of stuff. Of course, I'm guessing that there's probably quite a number of people who are listening to this who don't know that concert tickets used to be like actually printed paper objects that you could hold on to. Same thing with like airplane tickets, movies, all the things that you would go to.
Logan Wittmer (42:01.72) So here's a question in a good segue, Phil. Say theoretically you're taking a trip with these two chumps to Denmark and Sweden. What would you pick up there to put in a shadow box? Gransforth Brooks Axehead? Yeah.
Phil Huber (42:04.529) Yeah.
John Doyle (42:10.532) Mm.
Phil Huber (42:15.132) What would I pick up? Maybe. And here's the thing is just the other day, I somehow got connected on the Instagram of some dude who lives in Sweden, does restoration carpentry. And I think I sent you the link for the guy. Maybe I didn't. Anyway, and he was looking, he had posted about several vintage.
Logan Wittmer (42:35.093) I don't remember seeing it, but yeah.
Phil Huber (42:43.368) tools that he had found at stores in Sweden. And it just made me think like, A, I really want to go to Sweden and Denmark. I think that would be super cool. And it would be fun to come back. It didn't happen when we were in England. Come back with some kind of vintage tool from there. I mean, I did come back.
Logan Wittmer (42:52.456) Hehehehehe
John Doyle (42:53.38) .
Logan Wittmer (43:03.736) something or other. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Huber (43:09.596) with a piece of English boxwood, which I have as just kind of an object. I had originally thought that I wanted to make something with this, and I'm not entirely sure what I would make with something this small for fear of totally dorking it up. And then it would be like, great, this was three minutes in the fire then.
Logan Wittmer (43:12.181) Mm-hmm.
Logan Wittmer (43:22.669) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (43:28.97) I think that is a, hand plane it super smooth and then, or maybe do like a little like pond or something out of it, which would be kind of cool. but something that you just finish and then it's, it's the wood, you know, that's it. But, where I was going with that is we have had, I don't know how many people we've had. We've had several people sign up for the trip already. We have, I think at least three spouses that are going.
Phil Huber (43:40.008) Hmm, yeah.
Phil Huber (43:45.008) Right. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (43:57.518) I've seen. had a lot of questions. I've answered a few questions from the emails coming in like, Hey, my wife wants to go, but she's not into woodworking. And I said, well, yeah, you need to bring her a to stay out of the doghouse B. You know, our experience on the England trip is that even if a spouse is not interested in woodworking, they are going to enjoy themselves thoroughly. So.
Phil Huber (44:25.018) yeah. Yeah. So that all of that I'm super excited about. The other thing is just the ability for the contrasts. You know, we're to land in Copenhagen, you know, kind of the epicenter of Danish modern design, you know, tour PNP Mobler where they continue to do Danish modern pieces, where it's this mixture of like super high tech.
Logan Wittmer (44:34.05) Yeah.
Phil Huber (44:52.936) you know, multi-axis CNCs, vintage industrial scale machines, and a lot of hand work that all combine into these, into these pieces. You know, and then we're going to, at the opposite end, we're going to see like Seder Glunton and Skonson, kind of like old school folk carving and green woodworking and that kind of thing. that put that all together into the stew.
Logan Wittmer (45:11.522) Yep. I'm... Yeah. Yep.
Phil Huber (45:22.62) marinate it with some bus drives through the countryside. And I think there's going to be a lot of inspiration that's going on there.
Logan Wittmer (45:30.274) Yep, I'm super looking forward to the Grandsforsbrooks forges. So I'm so excited for that. So join us. Bring your spouse. Yeah.
Phil Huber (45:42.086) Right. You want to come. Bring your spouse. The spouse will have a fantastic time.
John Doyle (45:42.308) you
Logan Wittmer (45:49.57) Yep. Or just get away from your day to day. Bob, I'm looking at you.
Phil Huber (45:55.344) Right. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (45:57.912) Jeez. yeah, it'll be cool.
Phil Huber (46:03.378) Okay. There we go. All right. That's it for another episode of the ShopNotes Podcast. Questions, comments, and smart remarks are welcome. And we will see you next time. Bye.
