Our discussion in episode 254 about cordless tools created quite a bit of discussion here and in the comments. I'm going re-post a question from a listener as my main point here.
Question & Response
Hi guys, I was just listening to Shop Notes episode 254 where you had a long discussion on tool battery ecosystems and what it would take to switch. First of all, Logan, I totally agree with you about the M12 tools. No man wants that much girth in his hands while on the jobsite. Secondly I refuse to limit myself to one battery ecosystem. I currently have Milwaukee, Makita, Dewalt, and Ryobi chargers on my wall. I like the Makita drill better than the Milwaukee. The Milwaukee too loud and whiny for the shop. The Dewalt trim router has a superior adjustment mechanism to the rest in my opinion. The Ryobi 18v fan is half the price of the Milwaukee. It's the same freakin thing!. I like to keep my options open and hate the feeling that I need to buy an inferior tool because "I already have the batteries for it"
*I think that batteries should be universal just like back in the day with D, C, AA, AAA battery formats. If Milwaukee makes superior batteries to the rest, let them compete with other batteries on other tools just like Duracell or Rayovac. Frankly, I think it's anti-consumer. but I won't go full on political =)
Chris McCoy
Transcript
Thank you search engines for reading this.
Phil (00:07.025) Hey everybody, it is the Shop Notes Podcast, episode number 255 today. I'm joined at the start of December by John Doyle. We sent Logan off on assignment, frankly, mostly just to give John and I an opportunity to talk. So there you have it. We'll check in with Logan and his travels and fun adventures that he's been having next week. We'll kick things off here with
little response from last week's Thanksgiving episode in thanking all of our listeners and viewers who contribute with comments and questions and smart remarks and also those especially who are subscribers to Woodsmith and Popular Woodworking, particularly our membership, Woodsmith Unlimited and Popwood Plus, as they're the ones who keep the lights on.
our cars operating and the creative juices flowing here at the shop notes podcast. So as a result, thank you. And another component of that is this week's sponsor.
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Alright, in a shocking turn of events, last episode produced quite a few comments, which was delightful and also unexpected, yet not surprising, I think. I think that's safe to say.
John Doyle (02:58.838) Right. Yeah, it's like starting to talk about people's favorite sports teams or something. Everybody's got an opinion on their favorite battery powered tool brands and has something to say. So.
Phil (03:14.117) Yeah. Yep. I'm going to read through a bunch of these and then we'll, we can talk about them as we go along here. Bobby Three Fingers here. Well, hey Bobby. I was a diehard craftsman guy forever. And when Sears closed, I started buying Masterforce from Menards. I haven't been disappointed since. I have multiple drills, a couple quarter inch impact drivers, jigsaw, sawzall, all are 20 volt battery. I love them.
All right, there you go.
Mad Max 72 says I use Bosch cordless tools and the only corded tool is a palm router. I wish I had gotten a cordless. I love them.
Phil (03:59.696) See, and that's where I...
As we go along here, maybe we can talk about this more. But I would like to know where some folks dividing line is on where it's like, nope, not going to go cordless there. Or is everything on the table?
John Doyle (04:17.102) Great.
Phil (04:21.361) John Terry, 1490 says, about three years ago, I decided to add the Milwaukee M18 drill driver and router to my shop. Bought them from a big box store. Within the first year, the driver had stripped out, went online and the closest certified repair center was Acme Tools. Took it in and was told they only service what they sell. I have no problem with that. I do wish they had stated that on their website. Yeah, that would be clear.
They also told me that the Milwaukee tools they sold are a better quality than the ones at Home Depot. I sent the driver in and got it repaired. No problem since I have many DeWalt tools, never had a problem just saying, I do love that little Milwaukee router though. Cause I think, was it both you or you were talking about getting that one, right?
John Doyle (05:09.87) Yeah.
Yeah. and yeah, going back to, the comment about going cordless, the router is, is something that I don't think I'd ever would have thought of going cordless, probably just having bad experiences in the past with battery powered tools, you know, wearing, the battery wearing out and they're dying and just router, you wouldn't think it would have enough power. So I guess we're pretty blessed.
in the fact that, you know, we get a lot of tools in here and we get to try out other people's tools in the shop. And that's kind of one of them like, that's a delightful surprise of, you know, this, this router is pretty, pretty slick and
the battery is long lasting for most of the stuff we're using it for. And I don't know if I would use it for hours on end for mortising or that kind of thing, but it's great for edge profiles and light work. So I've been impressed with it.
Phil (06:20.827) I remember, this was a few years ago when we were doing the monthly seminars and Chris did one on like must have cordless tools or something. And I think that was my first experience with that Milwaukee cordless one.
Chris had been messing around with a bunch of tools for a while in preparation for this. And then he came up and was doing the seminar and then started plunge routing mortises with that. You know, just a few of them, like you said, it's not an all day machine, but he was like, you know, you put a quarter inch spiral bit in it and all of sudden you've turned it into a joinery tool and it worked like a champ. I was pretty, pretty impressed with it.
John Doyle (07:11.118) Yeah. Yeah, the other one.
pen nailer while ago and it's like, this is pretty slick. know, you don't have to get the compressor out and air that up and drag cords around and all that kind of stuff. And, know, it's, wouldn't depend on it for, you know, trimming out a house, but for the, some of the projects where, know, just shooting a few pins here and there, it's, you know, it's pretty slick and handy and convenient. So that's another one that I probably wouldn't have thought of if it wasn't put in front of me. So.
Phil (07:50.334) Almost Perfection says, was looking forward to further evaluation of the funnel head screws. Not sure I would need them as I also pre-drill and countersink everything. Yeah, it'll be kind of interesting to see how Logan goes on that one for a while.
Nolan writes, one of the issues with cheap generic batteries is safety. Potentially having a fire is not worth saving a few bucks, which, which I've heard that as well as the, is how well made the batteries are. But I also wonder if like practically every product that's out there, if there's a continuum of quality.
Phil (08:46.747) Almost Perfection also says, currently have the Ryobi battery tools waiting for the batteries or the drill driver to die to make a change, but they just keep going. If a good cordless router goes on sale, that might be enough for me to start the switch as well.
John Doyle (09:02.702) That's kind of funny how like some of the things that you don't like and you just want it to like die or break so you can replace it. They just keep going. Going.
Phil (09:14.043) Right, and kind of thrive on neglect too.
John Doyle (09:18.622) It's like, why don't you just go away, but just keep coming back.
Phil (09:21.061) You
Phil (09:25.213) Bot Dad says, I've been using Ryobi tools since they were blue instead of green. I still have most of the blue tools and they still work. Yes, the original batteries are long dead, but I doubt anyone's batteries from back then lasted very long. Battery technology has gotten better and better every year. All that being said, I'm only a DIYer. If I was using these tools every day for my job, I definitely would have gone with a more pro brand.
Phil (09:55.579) Which I think is...
Phil (10:03.217) Yeah, that definitely plays into my calculus for the tools that I have and why I have some Ryobi ones is because I just wasn't sure and still aren't sure whether the amount of time that I can spend with them justifies having like a higher end tool. You know, like I have part of the reason I got the Ryobi ones is because I wanted the 18 gauge Brad nailer.
like we have here on the set and we've had it for a long time and it works great, which is why I got it. And I don't use a brad nailer all that often. So why spend a lot on a tool that I infrequently use was my head math on that one.
Phil (10:55.901) Sherwood's email says, speaking of screws, not sure if you ever saw any of the videos by Woodcraft by Suman, but his YouTube video, I don't know why people use expensive screws. He tests a couple more expensive screws compared to drywall screws. And in many cases, drywall screws are coming close to the top performers. It was shocking to me as I was told by a mentor, the use of drywall screws
was a sign of the unexperienced and cannot be trusted, but it changed the way I looked at them and their use. And the claims of much more expensive fasteners. Interested to hear your thoughts on the video if you have time to watch it.
John Doyle (11:37.838) Check that out. I've just been burned too many times on cheap screws breaking or stripping out or where it's just been such a huge pain to then try to remove that or fix, you know, the project where it's just not even worth messing with. You know?
Phil (11:57.596) Right. Yeah. Yeah, I'll have to take a look at the video. I that comment came in just not that long ago and I haven't had a chance to look at it. But to your point, I've had the same sort of issue in the sense that
With drywall screws, I find that they'll break. With other cheap wood screws, I find that the heads strip out really easily. And then...
Which considering how thrifty I'll be in other instances, like screws in the grand scheme of the cost of a project, really aren't much of a factor, I believe.
John Doyle (12:53.74) Yeah, it'd be interesting to see in that video too. Are they drilling into construction grade pine or, cause it's like, you don't, you don't mess with white oak when it comes to like using drywall school screws or, or brass screws. Logan could tell you that. Don't, don't try to get crazy with brass screws into some solid white oak. So, but yeah, it'd be interesting to go back and look at.
Phil (13:23.665) I feel for the guy who was told by a mentor that using drywall screws is a sign of being unrefined because I feel like if somebody is judging you based on the type of screws that you're using, then you need to find a new judge.
But it is interesting to see how many people will take sides as to like what kind of screws are you using? You know, are they slotted screws? Because those are the cool ones or you know, whatever new modern driver, whether it's a Robertson or Torx head or something.
John Doyle (14:10.412) Yeah, it seems like when I'm hanging any of the projects on the walls in the shop there, like to use like half of them are like star head drivers and some of them are square head. So anytime we have to take it down, it's like, I gotta go find this bit now. And it's like, I've got half the screws out and I can't get the rest of them out and holding with one hand and
Phil (14:38.257) Yeah, I was working on a project in my garage and took down a shelf that my son and I had just put up earlier this year, probably in summer. And all the screws at the top of the shelf were Torx drive and all the screws on the bottom were square. And it was the same thing. So there you are, like somebody's holding half of a shelf up so it doesn't peel off the wall.
And it's like, quick, find the square drive.
John Doyle (15:12.349) Yeah, and don't know if it's the fact that like I, you know, kind of like how you said that the top half were stars, like drove all those in and then, you know, that's fine. And then he come back later and add the other screws type of thing. And they just happen to be different. So it happens.
Phil (15:34.525) I don't remember where I saw it. wasn't on the comments where I overlooked it is about cordless tools.
And I would agree with this, whoever had said this is the irritating part is that you can't is that cordless tool makers aren't really competing on the quality of all of their tools. It's just trying to get you to buy into their system. And then you're sort of trapped.
When, you if you think of other tools or other items in our lives that are battery powered, they have things like AA batteries, AAA batteries, C and D, you know, all of those kinds of batteries where you just swap out the battery and it's the thing itself, whether it's working or not. And it would feel like, wouldn't it be great if cordless tools all had a standardized
battery system, and then you bought the tool based on whether A, you needed it, and B, how well it performed for its given role.
John Doyle (16:59.438) Right. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like I've gotten into different battery systems just based on getting like one or two tools out of it. Cause I think this last time I got some Milwaukee tools, just because I needed a leaf blower, cordless leaf blower.
And it's like, well, if I'm going to do that, I'm going to get the batteries. You they have the deal where it's like, you're basically buying the batteries and getting the drill and driver with them. And so, you know, kind of got into that and now it's like, well, I like the router. Maybe I should get that. But then, yeah, I haven't like used the rest of their tools. So I don't know what, you know, what's
quality compared to other stuff that I have. So, but yeah, they get you in, they get you in with the gateway tools and then you're stuck.
Phil (17:53.821) Mm-hmm.
Phil (17:58.087) frustrating.
Phil (18:02.875) My son, who's been kind of interested in auto repair lately, has been learning about and fixing up different cars, part-time job. He was kind of lamenting a similar thing about cars in that different manufacturers of cars do essentially the same thing with different parts, but it's not like you can just swap out.
air filters or different components of it. it'd be like, wouldn't it be cool to have the way that you can do like a bicycle, you can buy a frame, just a bare frame, and you can trick out all of the components that go with it to your heart's content and spending desire or performance needs or whatever.
Phil (18:59.825) Like, why can't you do that with cars? You know, where it's like, Hey, I like the form factor of, let's just say, you know, Ford C-Max, but you want this kind of engine in it or these seats or this whatever. that it's all just, it's bolted on.
John Doyle (19:26.754) Right. Yeah. I was just lamenting that kind of same thing to my wife about cars. And it's like, well, I wanted this on the car, but to get this, also had to upgrade with the speakers and this other, the whole package of, like, I just wanted this one thing. And he made me buy it all. So.
Phil (19:41.221) You
Phil (19:46.791) Yeah.
John Doyle (19:49.678) Shake my fist at them.
John Doyle (19:56.109) Yeah, same thing with the shop vac fittings. It's like no hoses or fittings or dust ports or anything fit with anything else. Yeah. It's big adapter, you know, running the show. Yeah.
Phil (19:59.453) Yeah.
Phil (20:07.409) Anything, yeah. Yeah.
Phil (20:14.365) big adapter, yeah. Which is funny because that's like one of the top things you see on like 3D printing file sites is, you know, 3D model for X ShopVac to X Sander kind of a thing.
like, come on, guys.
John Doyle (20:41.944) Someday. Someday we'll live in a utopia.
Phil (20:43.409) Yeah. Right. It's also one of those things where it's like, I thought these were the kind of problems that capitalism was supposed to fix is that it would be, you know, creating seamlessness and free flowing.
John Doyle (21:07.982) That doesn't make any money.
Phil (21:15.621) Okay, as always, you can send in your questions, comments, and smart remarks. You can do that by email to woodsmith at woodsmith.com. Or you can drop us a comment on the Shop Notes podcast YouTube channel, where we've been putting all of our episodes for the last few months on there. And that's a great way to get our attention and to interact with other listeners and viewers.
Also, if you wouldn't mind giving us a review, those five star reviews help help the bots get the podcast out to a lot of other woodworkers. So more woodworkers, more comments, more fun on the episodes. So I'd appreciate if you would do that.
In upcoming news, just ran through the final edits of my third part of my shop tour video, which should be getting posted pretty soon. So look for it. I don't know. Who's the keeper of the YouTube schedule nowadays? that?
John Doyle (22:28.64) I know, maybe it's me. Yeah.
Phil (22:30.459) Maybe it's you. Yeah. All right. Whenever John decides to upload that baby and post it, it'll be there. So check it out. Working on the fourth one too. but the fourth one I've started on, but it's a little bit delayed because right now my entire garage is in a state of chaos, like deconstructed.
John Doyle (23:00.162) you
Phil (23:00.199) chaos, because my son and I are working on adding insulation and drywall to the rest of the garage. which meant taking down everything that was hung on the wall, moving everything around several times to keep it out of the way, and then
We got most of the installation done, start on drywall this week, this weekend. So that'll be kind of cool.
John Doyle (23:32.27) Just in time for a little cold snap here.
Phil (23:37.307) Right. Yeah, that's kind of the, the rush for today's work is that overnight it's supposed to drop below zero. And I would really like to get the insulation done today and then things cleaned up enough that we can get the cars back in the garage for overnight. Cause
freezing cold cars is not the kind of fun that I want to live in.
John Doyle (24:05.292) Yeah. Yeah. When I looked at the weather tomorrow is supposed to be the cold day of like, you know, below zero wind chills. And it's like, today's a high of 33. That's not too bad. But the high was at like 7 AM and the temperature has been dropping since that it's like, today's going to be cold too.
Phil (24:21.051) Yeah.
yeah. Yep. But then by the weekend, it's back up in the 30s. So.
John Doyle (24:33.262) Yep, short sweater.
Phil (24:35.409) Yep. The insulation that I've been using when we moved into the house, I had gotten a bunch of surplus Styrofoam insulation from a friend of mine. So I had a portion of the ceiling insulated with that, meaning it really wasn't insulated. just had that insulation jammed in there. And
It was glad to have it, but dealing with Styrofoam insulation means that I have those little tiny styrene balls just everywhere in my car, hair.
John Doyle (25:17.998) They stick to you and you're just like trying to flick them off and they just come right back and it's no escape.
Phil (25:22.661) Yeah, yeah, every every surface of my garage, even where we weren't even working, like, complete opposite end of the shop.
little Styrofoam pieces. So swept up a big snow drift of them yesterday. And I think the ultimate solution at some point is the fact that I'm just going to wait for a warmish day, fire up the leaf blower and just blow it all out.
Phil (25:55.472) Sweep what you can, shop, pack it, then just blow it out.
Phil (26:07.261) So what's going on in your world?
John Doyle (26:10.926) Um, this week seems like every day has been a Monday. It's just been one of those weeks between like sick kids and car issues and had an appliance installed here today. And it's just like hard to get anything going. So.
Phil (26:15.217) Hahaha
John Doyle (26:31.246) Still working on, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but a box designed for Woodsmith that you had built and we decided to use as a project. just trying to get those drawings into the shop. So I'm sure Mark is waiting. I think he's finishing up a pantry project, which is a bigger project, but he'll be anxiously waiting for the next thing when that's wrapped up. So I'm sure it's sooner rather than later.
John Doyle (27:04.408) Got a little break on filming, so I can get a few office stuff done. The bureaucracy of magazine output. So it's not all the glamour that you think it is, you know?
Phil (27:21.115) Right. It definitely is not. It's planning for next year's events and getting stuff taken care of for tours for next year. And the fact that even though you and I haven't really been doing much in the studio since our last filming day, like it still needs to be cleaned. And I'm not entirely sure how that happened. So.
John Doyle (27:46.103) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, all that stuff, see it like, we just finished up a woodworking event and all that. you just, like, just, you just went on your England trip. And it's like, those are things that are so far away, but then pretty soon it's 2026 and we're looking down the barrel for the next thing. so, yeah.
and stay on top of it all.
Phil (28:16.785) Yeah, it's kind of nutty. just, and the good part is, is that we're not doing any one thing over and over and over again. But the bad thing is that we're doing so many things that it's hard to remember where you were by the time you, know, like you check off all your list going down. And then it's like, by the time you get back to the first thing, you're like, I don't even remember where we ended up with this.
John Doyle (28:43.554) Yeah.
Phil (28:45.309) Like is this on you or is this on me? I don't.
John Doyle (28:49.292) Yeah, yeah, definitely felt that way coming back. We had a little break for Thanksgiving and it's like Monday. It's like, I think I remember what I'm doing, but I have this feeling that I I'm forgetting something or you know, what am I doing? So. It hasn't blown up on me yet this week, but I feel like there's going to be something like, hey, why don't you have this done yet? It's like, for God. Shoot.
Phil (29:04.733) You
Phil (29:12.733) You're like, yeah. Well, I thought that I'm the one that creates the show notes page for each podcast episode and then send it to you to link. it was yesterday that I was just looking over comments and getting ready for podcast today. And then I thought, we did that podcast just before Thanksgiving. And then I was gone. So I did not do the show notes page. So.
John Doyle (29:42.094) Yeah. That's the thing that that's the worst. It's like if we don't do it, nobody's going to do it. It's like I wish somebody would just do it, but it's all on us.
Phil (29:49.883) Right. Yep.
John Doyle (29:54.606) Part of being an adult, I guess.
Phil (29:56.208) Yeah. Not complaining, just trying to keep up. That's mostly what it is. Just keeping up.
John Doyle (29:59.833) Yep. Yep. Yep.
Dad, my mom and dad are on vacation, so they're not here to bug me. Did you get the podcast up? Did you get the descriptions done? They're the reminders. Still, 46 years later, still.
Phil (30:18.045) Great. Still.
I think that's kind of the funny part is like we know when we missed a week for podcasting because Friday morning you get a message from your mom or dad like, hey, when is today's episode going to go up?
Like, next Friday?
Phil (30:51.645) Because one of the things we were talking about in our weekly staff meeting was newsletters, which sounds like we want to kind of revamp how we're doing those.
Phil (31:05.149) how to make them valuable. Because I feel like there's a real tendency to...
Here's what I would like to know from people who are still listening 31 minutes into this podcast is what sort of newsletters do you subscribe to electronically and which ones do you find valuable?
because it feels like it's pretty personal. And I feel like there's newsletters that I get that are put together by marketing people, and then there's newsletters that are put together by content people.
where you can read the whole newsletter and it's like, wow, I feel either a little informed or entertained or inspired by it. And the other kind are like, these were just like a list of click bait.
John Doyle (32:03.225) Yeah, between pre Black Friday and now it's like a full time job of deleting marketing emails or the inbox is good. If you're not on top of it constantly, you're going to have like 500 emails.
Phil (32:13.437) you
Phil (32:19.901) Right.
John Doyle (32:22.068) sales and stuff. yeah, it's how like, yeah, what do because when we're making newsletters, for the most part, we're trying to connect with people and give information and there's some marketing obligations in the end with that. But for the most part, you know, our jobs are to get people information and
connection same same thing for the podcast or whatever and so it's like how do we create newsletters that people aren't just like okay I'm just gonna delete this I'm not even gonna open it or so it'd be interesting yeah to hear what people what kind of stuff do people want to see for the most part we have you know tips and and videos and articles people want to see more tool reviews or just
you know, personal, like you're doing your shop tours and stuff like that. Do people want to see more of that? So yeah, it'd be interesting.
Phil (33:21.253) And how much are you interested in reading?
email newsletters because there's a few newsletters that I get that are pretty text heavy and I'll spend a few minutes actually reading through what's essentially an article or so on the newsletter. And I enjoy that, but I also know that, you know, people are inundated with email and notifications and that kind of stuff and not everybody does. So that would be
That would be a curious thing.
Phil (34:00.124) Maybe we need to do different types of newsletters, like the Woodsmith newsletter for readers and then the Woodsmith newsletter for the skimmers and link finders.
John Doyle (34:11.534) Yeah, give the AI overview. The cliff notes.
Phil (34:16.411) Right.
Right. Not that there's necessarily one version that's better or worse. It's just because we're all different.
Phil (34:30.811) I am a text-based person, oddly enough.
fully admitting that I'm part of a public television TV show and do videos on YouTube.
Phil (34:48.145) We're all contradictions.
John Doyle (34:50.158) Do people want to see more TikTok dances from the Woodsmith Shop? Or is that a whole different audience we're not even tapping into? I don't know.
Phil (35:05.447) Maybe that's what we do is like redo some of our shop updates that start with like Mark in the foreground and Dylan kind of in the background. And then they just start doing some kind of shuffle, whatever the kids are doing these days.
John Doyle (35:22.456) Yeah. Yeah, that could either work spectacularly or fail spectacularly, but I'm here for it either way.
Phil (35:31.773) you
Phil (35:37.031) Sometimes you go to the hockey game to see who wins and sometimes you go to see who fights.
Phil (35:50.343) I like there was something else I was going to ask you about now, all of sudden, got sidetracked.
John Doyle (35:55.618) I'm good at that.
Phil (36:08.41) here's one of the items that I wanted to discuss is.
Chris is doing an article, remembered it.
It's about Chris, because I'm not sure how many people know, but recently Chris Fitch moved from central Iowa to the wilds of West Virginia. I don't know if West Virginia still has wilds. We'll pretend that they do. Right. Yeah. as part of it, he's setting up on a little acreage in West Virginia and has a two car garage that
John Doyle (36:21.229) Okay.
John Doyle (36:34.382) It does now that he moved there.
Phil (36:49.401) has an office attached to it or as part carved out of it. So he's going to be setting up both an office and a shop space out there. So that was where both newsletter and video related is I'm excited to see how that process takes shape because that'll be
You know, Chris was part of the like setting up shop e-learning course that you guys just did not that long ago. But also, you know, he's been pretty instrumental in how the shop here looks and has changed in the type of woodworking that he's done over the years. So to see how.
When you're setting up your fourth or fifth shop, what lessons do you carry over and what deliberate, drastic changes are you interested in making?
John Doyle (37:49.709) Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting to see what he comes up with out there because he is definitely one to never have been afraid to like just tear everything down or throw everything away and start over here in the shop and, you know, reconfigure and do different things. So it'll be interesting see what he comes up with basically starting from scratch out there. So I'm definitely interested that. I'll sign up for Chris, the Chris Fitch newsletter.
Phil (38:03.197) Yeah.
John Doyle (38:18.647) I'm in.
Phil (38:22.577) Right. Right. So now that I remembered that, I forgot what I was originally starting off with Chris making a mention of here.
Oh, Chris is doing an article in an upcoming issue of woodsmith on clean cuts in plywood. So he's talking about different types of data or table saw blades and router bits. So we had gotten in several versions of different blades specifically designed for working with plywood. And the part that interested me is on
plywood based router bits.
Phil (39:10.661) and marks a little bit of an evolution, because normally I try and keep a relatively minimalist kit of router bits, because it's really easy to go bananas.
However, with straight bits, at least in the type of work that I do, I feel like straight bits are one of those places that is, you're definitely in a place where it's advisable to just get as many as possible. Cause for example, I have like a couple of sizes, a couple of three quarter inch straight bits.
one for my palm router, so it's a quarter inch shank, another half inch one for my bigger router. And then I have an undersized 2332nd bit for working with plywood, which I find, I've heard people poo poo that idea, but I find that it actually is really handy. And then the other one that,
One of the ones that we got in was an 18 millimeter bit because a lot of plywood, depending on where it's made, is actually metric.
So, and to be honest, straight bits really aren't that expensive. So to have, you know, an 18, 23, 32nd and a three quarter inch bit isn't a ton of money overall, but just gives you a lot more options to suit the material you're working with.
Phil (40:52.093) So that's just, I don't know, in my opinion, worthwhile to do is just get all the straight bits. It's okay.
John Doyle (41:00.878) Yep. Yeah. Yeah, because they come in different diameters, but then it's like, you always need like different lengths too. It's like, especially like half inch bits. It's like sometimes you need a three inch long one. I mean, not that long, but like a longer one or whatever, but yeah. So it seems like, yeah. I was trying to do the math in my head. What does 18 millimeter kind of correspond to? Is that like three quarter ish?
Phil (41:13.723) Right. Yeah.
Phil (41:25.565) I think so, yeah.
We'll check that right now to the Googles.
John Doyle (41:29.858) Yeah. I usually think that like three millimeters close to eight, eight, an eighth of an inch. So I was trying to like math that all out, but.
Phil (41:38.961) Yeah, point seven zero eight.
John Doyle (41:43.342) Okay.
Phil (41:44.529) an inch. So pretty close.
John Doyle (41:50.03) There's a whole metric world out there.
Phil (41:53.841) There is, yep. It surrounds us.
Phil (42:01.138) But yeah, and the other thing, you like you were saying is sometimes you need bits of different lengths, but you know, I've for the longest time, it seemed like a lot of the early plywood sized bits had cutting lengths of like inch and a half or longer. And it's like, when I'm cutting plywood, I'm not a dado in plywood. If it's three eighths of an inch is usually really deep.
John Doyle (42:19.17) Yeah, I just want to make a quarter.
John Doyle (42:24.898) Yeah, it's like, don't need that long of a bit for that. That's a bit, that's a bit much. See what I did there.
Phil (42:33.553) Yeah. So that was the other thing is a lot of the plywood bits that we got in have shorter cutter cutting lengths and usually have like a slight, they're not spiral, but they have like a down shear on the angle of the cutting flute just to help preserve the face veneer of the plywood. All great ideas.
Phil (43:01.309) So it'd be fun to see how Chris's article turns out.
Phil (43:10.151) All right, I think that wraps up another episode of the shop notes podcast. Here we are early December, 2025, heading into winter. I would like to know what you have any winter projects or Christmas gift projects that you're working on. Send us that in an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com or leave it in the comment section on our YouTube channel for the shop notes podcast. And we will see you next week, everybody.
