An HD Sawhorse Project
A recent tree incident has me making several shrink boxes from one of the limbs. These are fun projects to attempt. I've learned about them mostly from Dave Fisher. His approach of hand tool work on green wood is inspiring.
In making them, I started by drilling a center hole. The rest is hollowed with gouges driven by a mallet. For leverage and visibility, I do this on one of my low stacking sawhorses. I love these guys. They work like a traditional sawbench, but easily stack for a taller support surface.
I have some plywood scrap in my shop and a chunk of oak leftover from a tool cabinet project. I've decided to make a Clydesdale version of this sawhorse. 2"-thick top, double-thick ends. I still want the overall size to match the others ... and still stack. There will be some ciphering to make this work. But I should end up with a solid trio of workshop helpers.
Fireplace & Plumb Bobs
Logan did it. He got a woodstove and has it installed and working in his shop. In time for the cold season, no less. With this in mind, the real reason I bring this up is that Logan relied on a rare layout/measuring tool to install the stove — a plumb bob. These cool and often beautiful tools are essential parts of trim carpentry, timber framing, and masonry/stonework. I read a book a couple years back on timber framing. The use of the plumb bob had me wanting to turn or make my own. I still may.
Maybe some of you remember Lee Valley used to do annual plumb bobs. They were crazy fun to see revealed around the holidays. Like a Christmas ornament that doubled as a tool.
Transcript
Encouraging people and computers to read.
Phil (00:05.836) Welcome, welcome everybody. It is the Shop Notes Podcast, episode number 251, where we discover that math-wise we're much closer to episode number 500 than we are to episode number one. I'm your host Phil Huber, joined today by the usual cast of Suspects, the John Doyle, as well as Lord of the Flame, Logan Whitmer, who will have some
other shop updates as we go forward. Thanks for listening everybody. As always, you can get in touch with us. Send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com or check out the YouTube version of the podcast where you can leave questions, comments, and smart remarks there. We take all comers. Before we get started on today's episode, I want to do a little bill paying here.
with some sponsor messages.
Phil (01:10.272) When you're working on a project in the shop, you put in hours of effort. The last thing you want is for it to come apart because the glue didn't hold. That's why you should keep a bottle of Gorilla Wood Glue on the bench. It's non-foaming, cleans up with water, and dries a natural color. Of course, there's that reliable Gorilla strength you can always trust. And check out Gorilla Wood Filler for strong, durable repairs. Gorilla is strong enough for the pro and easy enough for the beginner.
built by you backed by Gorilla.
All right. As per our usual liturgy here, we're going to start with some listener and viewer comments. We got one in by email here. This one is extensive, but appreciated. Jim Wiley, Village Handyman says, congratulations on your 250th episode. I have listened to every shop notes podcast from the first one.
I have enjoyed good information, friendly banter, and supposedly good-natured comments about shop smith. For about 25 years, shop smith was part of my life. In the early 1960s, when I was in college, my father bought a Mark V with several accessories. When I was home on school vacations, I got to fiddle with it. I watched my dad and younger brother use it to build an acoustic guitar. I was fascinated. Fast forward several years, I was in the army.
out of Officer Candidate School and teaching gunnery at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Several times I mentioned my dad's shop smith to a couple of colleagues. One of them became aware of a Model 10 ER for sale. Needless to say, I bought it for a couple hundred dollars. My wife and I lived in a duplex. We had a tiny shed attached to the carport. Some modifications to the shed and the base of the shop smith, it fit for storage.
Other than a corded electric drill and jigsaw, it was my first power tool. After three years in the army, I was back at my civilian job teaching and continuing to use my shop Smith. Gradually, I added other tools and gained skill. I rebuilt our kitchen cabinets during the summer, and then a friend saw my work and hired me for the following summer. I made enough money to buy a brand new Mark V along with the jointer jigsaw attachments. Within a few years,
I had added a belt sander and a bandsaw. The old 10ER was shipped to my brother on the East Coast. He still has it. Eventually I acquired several standalone tools. My older son, who had grown up with the shop Smith moved out of it on his own. He got the shop Smith and used it for over 15 years. He sold it when he moved across country and lived in an apartment. My personal shop Smith time extended over 25 years.
Phil (04:53.504) So what have I learned from my shop Smith experience? It allowed me to have a wide variety of quality woodworking machines in a very small space. As needed, I could roll them out on the driveway and build furniture. After my army time and now on our own home, it let me share the garage with a freezer, washer and a dryer, and for a while, a car. As a young woodworker on a limited budget, I was able to afford multiple machines, which served me for many years. Having a shop Smith,
allowed me to gradually expand my collection of standalone machines while still using the shop smith for other tasks. I now have a fully equipped garage shop with quality standalone tools.
Sure, it included a lot of compromises and I spent time changing from one machine to another, but it let me know I wanted to be a woodworker without spending too much money to start. I'm very happy with my current shop, but I'm grateful for the 25 years woodworking with my two shop smiths. I'm hopeful that someone will try to restart the company to benefit future woodworkers. So keep on dissing the shop smith on the podcast, but never forget how it can be a godsend to many woodworkers.
I'll continue to listen and see if you mention shop Smith and episode 500.
John Doyle (06:15.215) did not read.
Phil (06:18.304) What's that? I didn't hear you.
John Doyle (06:19.489) I said too long, did not read. No, that's very nice. And I think, I think people think that we have a problem with shop Smith. It's not that at all. It's somehow we've gotten into a rivalry with the jihadiq wing of the shop Smith users.
Phil (06:21.942) Right.
Logan Wittmer (06:39.944) hahahaha
John Doyle (06:41.463) And, and that's what, and that's what we love is just ribbing them. It's like, we have no problem with shop Smith at all. Let's get that. Let's get that straight. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (06:45.748) Yeah, yeah, it... No, it's the people that own shop smiths.
Phil (06:52.64) Right, I guess I kind of view it as...
Like I went to high school in Appleton, Wisconsin, back when there were only two high schools, West and East. And as a student of Appleton High School West, we just disliked Appleton East. For what reason? No reason. They were just the cross town rivals. So whenever, you know, I'd go to church youth group and had several friends there that were students at East and we'd poke each other. Like that was just
part of the... part of the thing.
John Doyle (07:33.416) Yes, we're all the same, but somehow we're rivals.
Phil (07:37.792) Right. Yes.
Logan Wittmer (07:39.774) Do not group me with those shock smith people. Do not.
John Doyle (07:43.397) except everyone except for Logan. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil (07:46.27) Everyone except for Logan. So we group by ungrouping. John, who are your rivals in high school?
Logan Wittmer (07:46.538) Yes.
John Doyle (07:53.605) Um, Grinnell maybe? Maybe Logan's school a little bit. We played Benton community. Yeah. Were we rivals? I don't know. You were probably more rivals with the Benton, right? They were right down the road.
Logan Wittmer (07:56.072) Yeah. I mean, we played each other, yeah.
Phil (07:56.191) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (08:03.789) yeah, for sure. was definitely the Benton Vinton. Did you guys play Vinton as well?
John Doyle (08:07.097) Yeah. Yeah, we were all in the same conference at the time.
Logan Wittmer (08:11.357) Yeah.
Phil (08:13.942) but there was no like, man, I just hate those guys from.
John Doyle (08:19.693) A little bit, but I mean, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (08:19.941) Inventin' for us, yeah.
Phil (08:23.872) Did you play, were you like in, like did you play Marshalltown or?
John Doyle (08:28.257) No, they would have been bigger than us. That's the thing is like we were smaller schools. So most of the, mean, you had to travel a ways a little ways. wasn't like cross town type of thing. So, so there was no real interaction with people. was just like, I'm just going to pick the closest town and now you're my rival. So
Phil (08:30.299) they wouldn't.
Phil (08:50.794) Okay, that's fair. All right, few more comments from last episode. Almost Perfection says 250, congrats. I didn't know I needed to be reminded of Wishbone. I think Arthur was either the show before or after in Western Iowa that I would watch before my dad came home and sent me out to do the farm chores. S. Zimmerman wrote,
Remote car starters on outdoor cars are way better option than messing up garage floor with road salt. Wood projects always change to match the materials I have available to a certain degree. I will send Logan a photo of a sand table I just built via email. Enjoy and appreciate the time you put into your podcast. We'll put that photo on the show notes page for this week.
Logan Wittmer (09:35.228) And he did.
Phil (09:43.917) Puppy Doc writes, I grew up cutting firewood with my parents and grandparents and hated it. I also grew up having to plant and maintain the family garden during the summer months and hated it. Oddly, I now enjoy both. I think a good part of the enjoyment is the nostalgia. The other part is as Logan called it, I'm results driven. The more I get accomplished with any JORRA project, the more I want to accomplish.
Logan Wittmer (09:50.358) Hehehehehe
Phil (10:12.074) I think the corollary to that is that you have to see that accomplishment. Like, you know, like there's a big pile of stacked firewood where there was logs or there's, you know, four wheelbarrows full of weeds that are now out of the garden.
Logan Wittmer (10:17.737) yeah. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (10:28.967) Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it's like yesterday, I was traveling all weekend. So yesterday was my day off kind of. was trying to just disconnect and not do anything work related. So what am I doing? Lugging a chimney up and down a ladder, like.
I am so sore today and it's I think and that like no other way I would rather spend a day off. mean sawmilling would have been great, but it was windy and you know, we're getting into a cold snap stuff. So stuff need done like just having the results is so good for me. Like that's I mean, I just like seeing progress. So I think that's exactly what it is. It's like, there's a pile of firewood or that's all done.
Phil (11:21.676) Stiegs writes, we have lived in our house for a little more than 14 years and have parked a car in our garage exactly one night. It's been a two stall shop ever since. Feral cars outside.
Logan Wittmer (11:34.097) Mm-hmm.
Phil (11:36.32) Almost perfection replies my mistake was letting them inside in the first place now the feral cars think that they belong there
Phil (11:44.941) Quality Lee says he uses a silicone free woodworking spray lubricant on tools because we had talked about tool coatings, whether it's something like Jets been doing or if it's, you know, like a carbon method sort of a thing. James Cottingham says, Congrats on 250. I've listened to every one of them. Angry comment. Spray on silicone. Pam, grease on the machine tops? No!
Logan Wittmer (12:08.995) You
John Doyle (12:14.531) you
Phil (12:15.508) As much as I hate painting, I would hate it even more if I had to finish or paint wood that had soaked up any of those. Okay, I know you were kidding, but seriously, put up a warning before someone actually tries that. By the way, furniture wax works very well. I'll agree with that.
Logan Wittmer (12:31.794) So it's funny, who did I just listen to? I was just reading through something or listening to somebody, like a well-known, well-respected woodworker, I don't remember who it was, and they were absolutely just bashing on furniture polish and furniture wax, and I don't remember who it was.
Phil (12:53.642) Wow. Okay.
John Doyle (12:53.733) like paste, like paste wax, like just, or, I don't know.
Logan Wittmer (12:56.184) No, like I think like furniture polish and anything that has any sort of wax in it. It may have been like an old Bob Flexner article or something.
Phil (12:59.584) Logan Wittmer (13:07.816) I was reviewing on my plane the flight back home. I was reviewing the Popwood USB back issue and I was just thumbing through some old, I think that's where it was, I was thumbing through some old issues and Bob Flexner used to send a lot of articles to Popwood and I think that might have been where it was. It was like bright red block letters, never use furniture polish, like all that stuff.
Phil (13:35.044) yeah. Right.
Sean Allard finishes up here with, a cart a cart without wheels? Isn't that a table or a bench?
Yeah, I don't know.
John Doyle (13:49.785) I think card is a state of mind.
Phil (13:52.81) It could be. I can see that.
I guess I wonder if a cart is a cart if it never goes anywhere even if it does have wheels.
Logan Wittmer (14:03.822) Mm-hmm.
Phil (14:06.444) So there's two sides of looking at that.
All right, you had talked about already Logan a little bit alluded to it about getting a chimney put up and you are now.
Got the boilers firing up.
Logan Wittmer (14:23.774) Yeah, I'm now I'm currently airing out the shop because I did not know the first time a wood stove gets fired as the paint cures it off gases and smokes a lot so Yeah, I spent yesterday getting the rest of the chimney and saw this was the from the attic space to through the roof
getting that installed. Honestly went very well. Like I hate heights. I will be the first one to admit that. I am a little whiny.
beotch when it comes to heights. I do not like them. I told my wife this morning, like I think that's probably why, like my legs are so sore, cause I was like clenching the whole time I was up on the roof. And it's like, I'll sit in a tree stand all day long, zero issues. I will climb a tree. I will put my climbing gear on and get up in a tree. I will get in a boom lift to do tree removals. I don't know. Something about being on roofs I do not like.
Phil (15:05.654) Ha ha ha.
John Doyle (15:06.031) you
Phil (15:22.956) Huh. Well, I mean, you have like a slippery metal roof anyway, so I think that's got to play a role in it.
Logan Wittmer (15:26.518) Yeah, well, I think it does. And this was actually the first time I was ever on this roof. So I wasn't sure how the steel roof would be to walk on because it is sheet steel. You have purlins every 24 inches and the accepted way to walk on them is to only step where the purlins are so you don't dent the roof.
The roof itself, not steep. It's like a 412 pitch. It's not a steep roof. The problem ends up being that because of all the pollen and dust and debris that's up there, it's slick. Like it is slippery. If I had like the magnetic steel roof shoes, I don't think it would be an issue whatsoever.
But yeah, got up there. So there's an attic insulation shield that, so my wood stove goes from the stove into double wall pipe, double wall pipe 14 foot to the ceiling, 12 foot to the ceiling.
and that it connects on the bottom to that insulation shield. And then on the top side of the insulation shield, it connects from double wall pipe to a triple wall pipe. So the pipe that's up there is like a 10 and a half inch outside diameter stainless steel pipe, and that goes through the roof. And I think I have three.
I have three three foot sections and one one foot section so there's ten feet of it total.
Logan Wittmer (17:10.338) do two of the three foot sections from inside the attic. So the one connects on top of the thimble in the ceiling. The next one goes through the roof, connects there, but then that has a shield and like centering bracket on it. So it's like a sheet metal shield that goes around the double, the triple wall. And then there's brackets. So the whole idea is between these brackets and the shield, it gives you the required two inches of clearance.
to combustibles and that's what actually anchors like all the chimney from leaning when it's coming through the roof and then the other sections are on the outside. The biggest issue was cutting the steel roof. Like I drilled a starter hole and then just was using some angled like aviation snips to cut it and the steel roof is pretty thick.
Phil (17:48.287) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (18:09.541) It cut okay, but where the ribbing is, trying to get the pliers to where they'll cut through the ribbing without trying to flatten out the entire rib section was kind of a pain. I got it, no problem. Long story short, I ended up carrying up one section of chimney on my back, up the ladder.
to put that on the roof that was a three foot plus a one foot section with the cap installed. Yeah, everything's up, it's running, it's sealed.
I got the weather sealing up there. While I was up there, decided to actually finish my vent pipe for the bathroom. So that has always been up into the attic. So I ran that through the roof and did that whole thing. So yeah, so we are currently doing our paint curing firings on the wood stove. She's smoky in here. She stinks, but we're going, we're going. It's supposed to be down to the thirties this weekend. So I figured it was a good time to get it.
up and running.
Phil (19:11.98) That's what John and I were wondering, because over the weekend you were in Atlanta, and then coming back from Atlanta where it's most likely warmer than it is here, and then seeing what the temperature was, was like, I wouldn't know exactly why Logan's up on the roof.
Logan Wittmer (19:16.225) Yep.
Logan Wittmer (19:21.432) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (19:24.836) Atlanta was like about the same temperature as here. Yeah, it was in the 40s in the morning. Which was funny, like walking out of the hotel, I stayed in a hotel kind of downtown Atlanta. So it's like only valet parking. It's not only valet parking, but the parking garage was closed. So it was valet only.
Phil (19:31.845) really?
Okay.
Logan Wittmer (19:51.063) but like all the valets every morning are like under their radiant heaters and wool jackets on, like wool coats. I walked out there and I'm like, you boy, you soft Southern boys. they're like, man, it's cold. I'm like, no, like this is great. Like I'm standing there in a t-shirt and my flannel. And I'm like, this is like beautiful, like fall weather. They're like, no, like this is about as cold as it gets down here. All right.
John Doyle (20:20.389) Yeah, so we're supposed to get a cold snap this weekend in the 30s and lows in the 20s. Atlanta, Monday, Tuesday, lows 28, high of 41. So they're going to get it too.
Logan Wittmer (20:32.419) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I say it was, was pretty much the same when I was looking at the, when I was looking at the weather before the trip to figure out what to pack. I was like, Oh, it's like the same weather is here. So, which is nice at this point, because most of time when I go to Atlanta, it's like 98 degrees and 135 % humidity. So.
Phil (20:57.749) story.
John Doyle (21:01.727) I had a question going back to your, chimney. What is the, like, the operation to get all the holes aligned from. Roof to ceiling to floor. go bottom up or top down, or like some of both or.
Logan Wittmer (21:13.921) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (21:18.718) I mid, I went middle out. So I went from, I positioned, actually I guess I did go bottom up. So I positioned the stove with appropriate clearance, got the ladder out, used the plumb bob to find the hole position on the ceiling, cut that in, then I got into the attic.
John Doyle (21:22.521) Okay.
Logan Wittmer (21:48.835) did the same thing plumb bobbed to the thimble that's now there. But the thing that's weird is like it's a 10 and a half inch diameter chimney. You don't just cut a 10 and a half inch diameter hole in a sloped roof, it's oblong. So I actually drew it up in SketchUp.
John Doyle (22:03.364) Right.
Logan Wittmer (22:09.762) I drew a 10 and a half inch diameter circle in SketchUp, made it a chimney pipe, and then I projected that through 22 and a half degree roof, and then used that bisectional.
to get dimensions, put that in Illustrator to print off a template that I carried up to the roof with me. Because all I did is I drilled a center hole from the inside out. And I figured it would be easier to cut the hole from the top side. So yeah, so was a little bit of both. Lots of plumb bobs.
John Doyle (22:33.253) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (22:40.715) Which is actually really hard to use a plumbob by yourself. You're standing there holding it for a long time to stop the swinging. Like usually when I'm doing something like this, it's like, you know, my dad's on the ladder or I'm on the ladder and the other person can kind of stop the swinging. So, yeah. Yeah. But amazingly everything ended up completely plumb and vertical. I'm like, you know, like.
Phil (22:47.834) yeah.
John Doyle (22:54.885) Interesting.
Logan Wittmer (23:07.874) know with myself, I'm gonna get the hole in the roof cut and it's gonna be a little bit off. I'm gonna have to angle the chimney. So the chimney's gonna come out at like an 83 degree angle and it's just gonna be lean. It's gonna be like the Dr. Seuss chimney. It wasn't. It ended up great. Yeah, it works perfect. So.
John Doyle (23:16.568) you
John Doyle (23:22.756) Yeah.
Phil (23:33.472) since we're still talking about it, I wanna know, you said your first three firings are to cure the paint. Is that like a limit on the type of fire you can put in there or is it just, it's the first three firings?
Logan Wittmer (23:46.441) Yeah, it says the manual. I thought when I read the manual the first time, and maybe it's one of those like cut sheets that they put in there, the manual says build a small 20 minute fire, let it cool. Build another small 20 minute fire, let it cool. Build a medium 30 minute fire and let that cool and then it's cured.
I remembered when I opened up the crate and got this thing out and stuff, something somewhere said like, build a 250 degree fire. Like, I don't know what the hell that means. Like, does that mean like, get specific? I don't. Well, yeah. So I'm wondering if that isn't like, get the outside of the stove to 250 degrees is kind of what I'm thinking. You know what I mean? Like, get the outside surfaces of the stove to 250. I don't know. Yeah.
John Doyle (24:25.829) That seems pretty like slow. Yeah, and low.
John Doyle (24:43.077) I'm just like I'm picturing like was it back to the future three when they had the different colored like logs to throw in the boiler like it would like heat up yeah they should send those or you can invent it like this is a 250 degree log burn this
Logan Wittmer (24:44.818) So.
Phil (24:51.614) yes. In the locomotive. Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (24:57.921) Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Phil (25:06.474) Yeah, I can see that.
Phil (25:16.054) What were you gonna say?
John Doyle (25:17.253) was just saying, I'm just thinking 250 degrees. When I'm trying to smoke meat, that's the lowest I can get my grill to burn at, is 250 degrees.
Logan Wittmer (25:28.057) Which is why I think it must be like the surfaces. Which to be fair, they do make like flue thermometers and stove thermometers. So like maybe if you had a flue thermometer or a stove thermometer, you could put it on there and like double check it. I don't know. I don't
I did notice this morning when I lit this fire that, I sealed all the pipes with black chimney sealant between the junctions. This one, the very first one where the adapter goes into the stove, all of that leaked out. So like, it's almost like maybe I shouldn't have used it there. I don't know, like.
I'm new to this wood stove thing. So it's like, I'm kind of learning as I go. probably should get a CO2 detector in the shop. But.
John Doyle (26:25.413) Get a carbon monoxide detector with a snooze button on it.
Logan Wittmer (26:31.113) Yeah
John Doyle (26:33.749) I just want to sleep for 10 more minutes.
Phil (26:34.188) All right, for everybody who's out there that has Woodstove experience and is just sitting there shaking your head right now, we'd love to hear from you on where did Logan go wrong and what did he do right?
Logan Wittmer (26:41.267) Let me know.
Phil (26:49.652) Not that you weren't going to do that anyway, but this is an invitation for you to actually write in so.
Logan Wittmer (26:52.133) Yeah, exactly.
John Doyle (26:52.185) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (26:55.965) Yeah, and if your name is Jordan from Allstate Insurance, this stove is not installed yet.
John Doyle (27:01.157) You didn't see this.
Phil (27:02.215) Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Logan Wittmer (27:04.861) Yeah, you have not heard this Jordan.
Phil (27:11.976) super funny. All right.
So I know that you got a pop wood issue going to press here pretty quick. What's coming up?
Logan Wittmer (27:22.026) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (27:26.751) So this issue has a handful of things. It has a Shay Alexander hearth stool. So a little three-legged stool with a couple stretchers on it. Round seat that is bandsawed, drawn knife and spoke shaved. kind of this kind of came or Shay's article or Shay's demonstration at Woodworking in America kind of came out of this.
So kind of a cool little tapered leg stool. So that's in there. Willie Sandry has a drill press cabinet in there. So kind of like a soup up your drill press, like build storage into your drill press, floor standing drill press that is in there. And then Colin has a Malufian wall cabinet. So it's kind of a little small scale wall cabinet that is rabbit
rabbit joints, dados, screws, plugs, shiplap back on it, and then a textured front door on it, which is pretty cool. And then I cannot pronounce her last name. Her name's Lara.
Colin ran into her when he was up touring the North House Folk School and he shot a project with her. She's covering some carving tool sharpening and kind of some traditional Scandinavian carving tools.
Phil (29:00.047) cool.
Logan Wittmer (29:00.176) So that is in there, yep. And then an interesting one. So there is a gentleman by the name of Kevin Pierce in the last issue of Popwood, which I don't think I have sitting here. We published an article from Kevin. So Kevin...
has illustrated a lot of woodworking books. His brother, I believe, used to write a lot and Kevin did all the illustrations for them. So we had this article from Kevin Pierce on the Stickley number 210, which is like a knockdown daybed style thing.
And when Kevin sent this in originally, he had a bunch of really nice hand illustrations with it, like basically like cross-sectional views on the construction of this thing. And it was too nice to, I didn't want to short it to get it all into this last issue. So we decided to break it apart. So we broke it apart to kind of the number 210 Satie in this one as, or in this previous issue as kind of
a background to Stickley and some of the Stickley design and then this issue that is going to the printer next week has his illustrations in it so that will have
Kind of full illustrations to build one of these number 210 Stickley settees if somebody wanted to. It won't be like our normal style because our normal style would have photos of it being built and stuff. But these are full drawings like you would find in a furniture construction book. So it'll be kind of cool. So, and then just because I happen to have this in front of me, the...
Logan Wittmer (31:03.71) The I was down in Atlanta to shoot was different than a normal project. The photo shoot there was with a gentleman by the name of Haseeb who was the winner of the Grizzly Makers Challenge for 2025. So right here.
we can see Haseeb and his entry cabinet that he built. So part of that Grizzly Maker challenge is that you get the winner. So Phil, myself, Shabir, and...
Shiraz from Grizzly judged the top 10. So it was general voting for the top 10 to elect the top 10 and then Phil, myself, Shabir and Shiraz did voting on the top 10 to determine the winner.
The winner of it got a, I think a $3,500 gift card to Grizzly. And also they're their project featured in Popwood, like one of our standard projects. So I spent Saturday, Sunday, and Monday with Hasib and we rebuilt this bad boy. So that's what I was down there shooting. So that'll be next issue. Yeah.
Phil (32:31.83) Cool.
That'll be fun. We'll put a photo in that in the show notes page so you can see what was that. That was a fun thing to do with Grizzly and to hash out all the winners. it's one of those things where it's like, how do you judge projects that ranged from small carved items to extremely elaborate marquetry, furniture, sculptural pieces? There's no way to do that.
Logan Wittmer (33:01.137) Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's interesting to me, and I think I said this to Haseeb when I was down there, down there shooting with him, which...
I don't know that he listens to this podcast, but man, shout out to his mom. She made us butter chicken one night. So Haseeb's dad is from Pakistan. His mom's from India. So I'm like, this is like my food. yeah, this is like my food. we were just, we came up conversation and he's like, Hey, we would love to have you stay for dinner. My mom will cook butter chicken. Oh God, it was so wonderful.
John Doyle (33:28.773) Speaking of rivals.
Logan Wittmer (33:43.39) It was amazing. But anyways, I was telling to see this it's like It's interesting to me Because there's like 1200 entries into this thing. There was a lot of them. So going through and looking at the entries there were it's funny because
the general voting was a little odd to me because there were entries that I think were unbelievably complex and very, very highly done that had zero votes. I'm like, that's interesting. And then there are some, not Haseeb or the other, the top two, but there are others that made it into the top 10 that I'm like, nice project.
Not one I would have put in the top 10 though. So it's just very interesting and that's what general voting does though, right? It's like, you know who can who can petition Enough votes for their project. So it was kind of which if you are building stuff
The 2026 one is gonna be announced here in the next couple of months. gotta start petitioning your votes right now. Get your following up. Get yourself in the top 10.
Phil (35:09.42) That'll be cool. There was a lot of really fun ones in there that I, same kind of comments that I thought were, it's like, I've found some of those projects super compelling. And then other ones that were just.
I don't know that I would, they were all great in their own right, but like they just, there's just different things that speak to different people. It's just the subjective nature of, of how we are. So, yeah. I mean, it's the same thing, John, like when we go to Iowa State Fair and see all the woodworking exhibits that get put out there, it's a, it's such a broad.
Logan Wittmer (35:27.577) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Phil (35:51.527) scattering of types of projects that it's tough to be able to nail down. Like what, how would you, how would you categorize that?
Logan Wittmer (35:56.923) Yeah, well, and it's hard
Yeah, and it's hard as you judge them too, like even like, mean, state fair or, you know, this it's like, because you have to remove your own personal bias out of it. Where it's like, okay, that's not either my design style that I like, but I can recognize that this piece is done better than the other ones, you know? And it's like, so how do you judge it? Do you judge it on some combination of design? Do you judge it on craftsmanship?
judge it on your personal bias like I really like shaker stuff so that puts you a leg up in my book you know what I mean it's like there's a lot of it's all subjective so
John Doyle (36:43.887) Yeah, I find that I'm really more drawn to some of the stuff there that I don't do like carving or turning like that kind of stuff. I like more drawn to because I don't do it and I don't understand how people can, you know, make those like really intricate decoys and carvings and stuff like that. Whereas like the stuff that I could do, it's just like, unimpressed because I could do that too.
Logan Wittmer (36:58.565) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (37:08.442) Hahaha
Phil (37:10.4) Ha ha ha ha.
Logan Wittmer (37:16.154) That's awesome.
Phil (37:17.797) super funny. All right, John, what have you been up to?
John Doyle (37:19.011) Yeah. Well, besides design projects that I've talked about, we have readers tips coming down the pike here. So it's that time in the cycle again. So should be working on that. But instead, I decided to put together some tools that we had come in the studio because I don't want to sit on my desk. So I've been out there.
Phil (37:41.545) right.
John Doyle (37:45.327) putting together a bandsaw and drill press.
Logan Wittmer (37:49.306) Mmm.
Phil (37:49.642) I believe the word for that is procrastinate forward.
John Doyle (37:53.539) Mm-hmm. Yep. That's what I'm doing.
Phil (37:57.185) Yeah. Okay. I saw that they were starting to get put together and I was trying to figure out if that was just like our little shop gremlins doing that or if that was Dylan or you were.
John Doyle (38:08.421) Shot buddy.
Phil (38:10.1) you
Logan Wittmer (38:10.17) It is it is a shop gremlin, but it's a six foot one shop gremlin
John Doyle (38:14.669) Yeah. Yeah.
Phil (38:15.156) Yeah, soon we'll promote him from shop buddy to shop Smith.
John Doyle (38:17.998) Yes.
Logan Wittmer (38:19.65) Yeah.
Phil (38:22.336) So speaking of tips, you know, we've talked about this a little bit on the podcast before when we're getting ready to shoot photos for tips, but out of all of us here, I think that you have been blessed slash cursed with being part of the Reader's Tips for the longest. So maybe you could pull back the curtain a little bit and talk about what happens with Reader's Tips.
John Doyle (38:41.186) Mm-hmm, yes.
John Doyle (38:50.597) Yeah. So yeah. So readers tips was always given to like the rookie designer and rookie editor. And I was the rookie designer for, I don't know how long until Dylan came along. So probably 12 to 15 years, I was the rookie designer. So I always had tips. And by the time he came along, it's like, Oh, I just kind of enjoyed doing this. And it's like,
a lot of tinkering, get your little scraps of Baltic birch and threaded inserts and bailing wire and start putting stuff together. You get all these ideas from the readers and some of them are very specific to like what they're doing, the project they're doing at the shop is like, well, how do I make this more general for the reader or, know, kind of tweak it a little bit. So
Some are very flushed out when we get them and some of them have to be developed a little bit. I enjoy, it's just kind of mini small projects and get all your scraps together and scrap hardware and see what you can put together. So make it look good.
Phil (40:01.409) I think that's the fun part of watching the readers tips section come about is seeing that there are some of them, like you said, where it's a little bit part archeology, where it's like, I found this scrap of something or other, and now I have to interpret what these writings mean and what this works out to. And then other times it feels almost more like a, almost like a calm, like a conversation sorta in construction between like,
the reader submitted this for their idea. And like you said, you know, like, but that makes me inspired to do this. And so now it's like a little bit bigger, a little broader of a tip. So.
John Doyle (40:40.259) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or it's like they found some random thing at a garage sale or a state sale and turned it into something else. So it's like, well, where do I find that at? Or how do I relate that to just everyone? But yeah, it's just fun. Little mini projects, little mini victories, like we talked about earlier, is just getting the momentum of.
Phil (40:53.1) Hey
John Doyle (41:09.007) building the next thing or seeing what you can create.
Phil (41:12.682) Yeah. Yeah. And some of those readers actually are us in the sense that we'll make something for our own workshop or for around here. And then that gets turned into a tip or seeing something like Mark doing something in the, in the shop. Like,
John Doyle (41:17.029) Mm-hmm.
Phil (41:34.039) The one that I think of Mark just recently was I was talking to him and then as I walked out, noticed next to his bench, he had a dust extractor and you know, a lot of them have the tool activated. So you turn on the sander and it turns on the shop vac at the same time. But Mark was like, that's dumb. So he had like a three-way splitter plugged into the shop vac so that he had
two Sanders plugged into it and then could hook up like a router or something or else to it. So that no matter what tool, whichever of the Sanders he grabbed and turned it on, it was going to activate the shot vacuum. And I thought that was just, that was pro level.
Logan Wittmer (42:22.373) I'm sure all Dust Extractor manufacturers love hearing that.
Phil (42:27.392) Yeah, I'm sure they do, but that's what you get. This is what's happening right now.
John Doyle (42:33.733) Yeah. Yes. A lot of times, like just any of us, we, have a tip brewing, we don't even know. Cause it's something that we've done, you know, all the time. It takes somebody else to kind of come into it. he was like, Oh, I never thought of that. And, know, put that into the readers tips or a lot of times we would get, uh, photos, um, from, from readers, uh, submitting tips and they would, know, you could see their whole shop and we'd like see something in the background. like, well, what is that?
Phil (43:02.038) Hahaha
John Doyle (43:02.241) You know, you start asking them questions and, you know, just evolves.
Phil (43:13.205) It's a lot of fun.
John Doyle (43:14.447) Yeah.
Phil (43:17.078) because I got to write the tips for last last issue and this issue. And that's something I haven't done in a while. So it's jumping back in there and trying to decipher what people are trying, what people did, but what it's actually doing, like kind of getting to the why behind the what in a sense that way. So in my own shop, I've been working on a couple of Christmas gifts.
Some of them, three of them, inspired by a neighborhood mishap in that my suburb is part of the silver maple ring that circles Des Moines.
that they get to a certain age and then they just kind of give up. They're just done checking out. Self-pruning, I believe is the word. So, yeah, a couple of weeks ago, we had one huge limb off of a neighbor's tree fell, hit the power lines, snapped a power pole, yanked out power from people's houses, all that kind of stuff. The tree was gonna be
taken down like the next day, but the tree was like, no, I'm setting the tone here. But one, at night when I was walking my dog through there, I've in the chopped up sections of tree branches and whatever, I found a section of limb that I took and I'm making three shrink boxes with, which was kind of fun to do that. I had gotten a two inch T handle auger from Logan.
that he had used for trap setting. And I sharpened that up and put a new handle on it and discovered that even though green woodworking is much easier to do than dry wood, drilling a two inch hole through soft maple is no easy feat. It's a lot of work. A lot of shoulder, there's a lot of shoulder involved there.
Phil (45:33.398) But it's a lot of fun. I'm enjoying the process. And now I have three from that long section. got three shrink boxes and I bottoms into them. And then as the wood dries out, they'll shrink around the bottom and seal it all up. And that's been fun to kind of go in and check on those periodically.
John Doyle (45:54.8) So you speak of the perils of being part of the silver maple ring around Des Moines. What is worse, the silver maple ring or the perils with the emerald ash borers and being part of the ash hole? Which is just inside the silver maple ring? Okay. I'll see myself out.
Phil (46:20.362) Yep.
Phil (46:27.456) Needless to say, John's file with HR is extensive.
Logan Wittmer (46:32.909) It's thick.
Phil (46:34.793) You
So part of that also is I was, so I drill out the hole in the maple and then to create the much larger opening on the inside of the box, I use a gouge and a mallet to pound it out and was sitting on one of the low stacking saw horses that I have in my shop. have several sets of those around here and it's actually one of my favorite saw horse designs of all time.
I'll just say it right now, super handy. And I've decided that I'm going to make a miniature Clydesdale version of that sawhorse, because I have some oak that I got from Logan for my son's tool cart. So we have lopped off the sections at the end, and I'm going to make one of the stacking sawhorses instead of a
single layer of plywood for the top, it's going to be like two or two and a quarter inch thick oak top. And then two layers of plywood for the legs instead of a single layer.
My idea being that it just is going to be a heavier, more solid surface for hand work. Then it'll take more.
Phil (47:59.712) more more malleting without feeling a little bouncy.
So that'll be kind of fun to do.
Phil (48:10.132) And then for all the people who are wondering, I also started filming part three of my shop tour series. So that'll be coming out in a little while as well. Welcome back, Logan.
Logan Wittmer (48:24.089) Yep, internet went out. I'm leashed to my phone right now to get this to record.
Phil (48:26.634) Ha ha ha.
John Doyle (48:31.333) We were your shop burned down.
Logan Wittmer (48:34.181) Valid.
Phil (48:35.884) you
Yep, we've all seen backdraft.
Phil (48:45.568) All right, I think that wraps up another episode of the Shop Notes podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, whether it's in your car, walking your dog, in the sauna, we would appreciate the fact if you could check in with your local podcastery. Give us a rating and a review, helps other woodworkers share the same joy that you're experiencing with the Shop Notes podcast. Don't forget you can write in.
woodsmith at woodsmith.com for questions, comments, and smart remarks, or leave a message over at our dedicated YouTube channel, Shop Notes Podcast. Thanks for listening, everybody. See you next time.
