The conversation in this episode stems from a listener comment about the alert tune that Samsung laundry machines play at the end of a cycle.
How does that relate to woodworking? Well, we get into feature-laden tools and when and how they're appropriate. That leads to computerized machines of all sorts: CNCs, 3D printers, lasers.
Some of it is moving skills and manufacturing forward, some is marketing, and some is the experimental nature of innovation. Someone's gadgety feature becomes a stock item a few years later. For life in my shop, I prefer the simple sorts of tools.
What kinds of tools do you prefer?
Transcript
These are the words we said.
Phil (01:58.742) Welcome everybody, it's the Shop Notes Podcast, Reaching a Milestone, episode number 250. We got here, we did it. On this episode, we're gonna answer some listener questions, check in with all the doings that are going on here at Woodsmith and Popular Woodworking, and just have a nice little day of memories of all the fun that we've had here on the podcast. And yes, we have had some fun here. This episode of the Shop Notes podcast is brought to you by... Gorilla Glue. When you're working on a project in the shop, you put hours of effort. The last thing you want is for it to come apart because the glue didn't hold. That's why you should keep a bottle of gorilla glue on the bench in your shop. It's non-foaming, cleans up with water, dries in natural color, and of course, there's the reliable gorilla strength you can always trust. Also check out Gorilla Woodfiller for strong, durable repairs. Gorilla is strong enough for the pro and easy enough for the beginner. Built by you, backed by Gorilla.
John Doyle (04:09.71) So two things if this episode is about talking about all the fun we've had is it going to be a really short episode? Okay. And yeah, yeah, it's going to be short. And the other thing is now that we're at 250, it just reminds me of the regret that I had 10 episodes ago. I didn't shout out the bean soup episode. It was 240. 240, 40. Yeah. Yep.
Logan Wittmer (04:18.377) Definitely not Sonic Length.
Phil (04:36.022) Yeah, because Irish bean soup can't have any more than 239 beans in it. Otherwise, it's too farty.
John Doyle (04:39.15) Right.
And that concludes episode 250 everyone
Phil (04:49.644) You
Logan Wittmer (04:49.919) Duh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh.
Phil (04:53.952) All right, we'll check in with some listener comments. Last issue, PuppyDoc said, glad you enjoyed all the tasty treats. It's just my way of saying thanks for the weekly entertainment.
Phil (05:07.372) Driftless Joinery says, talk of carts reminded me I was going to make a new small cart to move parts around after I put a panto router on my old one. But Phil's comment about tool stands on wheels made me count how many carts I have that don't ever move. That would be four.
Phil (05:30.668) Boy9GGZ says, I would love to have carts in my shop, but I have no room for them. I have tools on wheels, planer, bandsaw, miter saw, shop smith, but no room for a cart to act like a cart to move supplies, project parts during construction, et cetera.
Logan Wittmer (05:51.933) You know, on the cart thing real quick, I did get a message from one of our listeners. Hold on, gotta... This boomer has to figure out how to get his Instagram messages quick. I don't really ever know how to do that. Yeah, so Pat Donovan sent me a...
Phil (05:52.377) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (06:15.785) folding cart that looks pretty cool off of CrescentTool.com, so the makers of the Crescent wrench. Because we were talking about the storage of it and this one like folds in half and it holds 300 pounds. He said there's a Lowe's version too, so I may be checking them out, so we'll see. that comment about the cart made me think of that.
Phil (06:42.956) To the point that we made and the comment by Driftless Joinery there, just because you have carts doesn't mean that they need to move. I think that only works if your shop is a certain size. And otherwise, it's more about flexibility.
than it is about having stuff on the go all the time.
Phil (07:09.886) in my opinion. almost perfection says everything on wheels. The boss is still convinced cars belong in my shop.
Phil (07:22.261) You
That would be another question that I would have that I pose for our listeners out there is how many of you have a garage shop where it is the shop and the cars have been relegated to being feral living outside?
Logan Wittmer (07:39.261) Hmm.
My wife got home from a trip last night and I texted her before she landed like, hey, you can't pull in the garage, I'm sorry. There's a skid loader in the way because it was raining and I needed to get the skid loader inside.
Phil (07:51.776) Ha ha.
John Doyle (07:57.228) It doesn't fit in your big outbuilding. Okay.
Logan Wittmer (08:00.336) Okay, John, there's a duck boat in there. I put the sawmill inside and I currently have a bunch of lumber stacked in the single stall that I need to break down into turning blanks. I'm blaming this one on Jimmy Clewes because we got a pallet going down there that is kind of spread out all over.
John Doyle (08:18.004) Okay. Okay.
Logan Wittmer (08:21.125) Yes.
Phil (08:22.56) John doesn't sound entirely convinced.
Logan Wittmer (08:24.602) I know he doesn't. Have I measured it and will it fit on the patio of the shop? Yes it will. Like I could park it on the patio like an overhang, like a carport, but those tires tend to leave black smudges all over. Yeah, that would be the skid part.
Phil (08:36.371) right.
Phil (08:42.742) Yeah, that would be the skid in the skid steer.
John Doyle (08:45.568) Yeah.
Plus it was already by the house anyways because you were loading lumber into the basement to keep it out of the rain. Just put it in the patio door.
Logan Wittmer (08:57.168) That's true. That's right. That's right. Yup.
Phil (09:02.262) thought you were moving your metalworking stuff out to your...
Logan Wittmer (09:06.18) Not yet. Not yet.
John Doyle (09:07.116) you
Phil (09:11.788) John Nastah has a couple of comments here. said Logan should definitely move his metalworking tools into his garage. That'll give him space for three or four more lathe's plus the shop smith he secretly wants.
Logan Wittmer (09:24.613) And as I replied back to John, can't prove shit. He can't prove nothing.
Phil (09:28.778) Yeah, yeah, because he also followed up with, did I just hear correctly that Logan broke his friend's jointer in order to salvage the switch bracket instead of fashioning a new one with all the metalworking tools in his shop?
Logan Wittmer (09:37.02) Hahahaha
Logan Wittmer (09:45.862) He approved nothing.
Phil (09:46.006) This is the kind of shade that John and I live for here really is.
John Doyle (09:47.278) Yep, yep. That's why we do this.
Logan Wittmer (09:52.749) As a famous American artist once said, happy little accidents.
John Doyle (10:01.646) you
Phil (10:05.356) There you go.
Phil (10:10.988) had a few comments from our special episode with Colin and Nick Offerman. Stiegs T. writes, this interview is absolutely fantastic, very well done. Nick Offerman is quickly becoming similar to Snoop Dogg as an American treasure of personality. They both can be slightly divisive at times, but really can bring some joy and fun to the world.
A fight against technology is definitely tricky to balance with replacing the mundane tasks you don't enjoy to continue working on a project that you do enjoy creating, making, and building. Almost Perfection says, really great interview. Loved my VOTEC classes in high school. And then, Alphita158 says, thank you. Great episode. I also listened to an interview with Mr. Offerman on the Bullseye podcast. Can't get enough.
and please try not to run your Samsung washer or dryer during interviews as that song the machine plays when the cycle is complete can be really off-putting. In fact, my dryer plays that and if I can unload the dryer before the song finishes, I win. FYI, the roughly 30 second tune that plays to notify you that the cycle has ended is from Austrian composer Franz Schubert's piano quintet in A major.
otherwise known as die Forelle or the trout in German.
Logan Wittmer (11:42.588) I will tell you, we just got rid of our Samson washer and dryer. Speed Queens for the win. But, did the obnoxious song that they play come into play during my decision? 100%. Obnoxious.
John Doyle (11:59.918) you
Phil (12:02.817) You
John Doyle (12:04.246) It's like a modern day Pavlov's dog. It just like triggers something in the brain.
Logan Wittmer (12:07.33) Yes.
Phil (12:10.668) There you go. ShopNotes podcast, come for the woodworking, stay for the cultural entertainment.
Phil (12:22.774) So Speed Queen does not have a jingle at place at the end.
Logan Wittmer (12:25.602) No, it's great. No, it's great. It goes meh and that's it. Like they are no frills, absolutely ugliest. Like I know that was in my apartment building back in the mid 90s. It's that type of washer and dryer, but they just run and they're quiet.
Phil (12:34.006) Yeah.
Phil (12:46.305) Okay.
John Doyle (12:47.96) Yeah, yeah, we're looking at dishwashers right now and it's like, this one has the app that can do all this and 11 different cycles. I just want to push one button and it washes the dishes and I move on. I don't need all the frills and the extra stuff, but.
Logan Wittmer (13:03.26) it's funny because I think that you know time is no woodworking to like I think there are people that really like the the the frills right like Harvey released their a-15 intelligent bandsaw like there are people that are really gonna like all those little features and all those cool little things they can do with it
throw Shapr Origin in with that, right? There's all these little modules that you can either buy or install that you can easily set up finger joints, stuff like that. But then there's people that they just want a bandsaw with an on-off button. There are people that just want, yes, exactly, with a VFD, so it's a little bit more convoluted than that. But...
Phil (13:43.156) and they won it 36 inches.
Logan Wittmer (13:52.439) I mean, like I get both sides of it. yeah, like, so there are some modern tech features that are really nice to have in, you know, woodworking equipment or, you know, stuff in your house or whatever. But like, then there's sometimes where it's like, I just want the damn thing to work.
and I want it to be simple. And now I kinda get why my grandpa, whenever he bought a new truck, would custom order a truck that didn't have power windows or power locks. It's just one more thing to break. I kinda get it now.
Phil (14:23.882) Yeah. That, well, going off of that one comment, or a couple of comments, actually, I did want to push on you a little bit for that, because you kind of
As you said, have foot in both worlds in the sense that you have a bandsaw that's essentially just an on-off switch. You have a lot of vintage machines for those reasons, but then you're also deep into like hand tool stuff, but then also have like the origin, the panto router done some laser stuff.
Logan Wittmer (14:49.679) Yeah.
Phil (15:06.61) not unfamiliar with CNC work. You know, does that feel
Logan Wittmer (15:06.767) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Phil (15:14.134) How does that track in your pursuit of the stuff that you make?
Logan Wittmer (15:21.434) I think it distills down to yourself as a woodworker and what you enjoy and knowing what you're trying to get out of it, right? Like hand tool stuff, I do that for me. Like I don't do that for production, right? Like if I'm, if I am building mahogany entry doors for a church, I'm not running all those with a molding plane. I'm running those over the shaper.
Logan Wittmer (15:55.15) That is me getting that done. If I'm working on a project and I'm in the zone and it's like, you know what, it's been a long week at work, I'm gonna surface all these parts with my hand plane and that's just me shutting everything off except the audio book and doing that for three hours. So like, I mean, it's, there's a time and a place for everything, I think. Shop Smith's included. In the back end of a dump trailer going to the dump.
John Doyle (16:25.034) wow.
Logan Wittmer (16:25.689) Just kidding! Just kidding, Jesus! But it like... Here's a good example, right? This week, last week, we were here doing some filming with a laser, a dual...
fuel laser fiber and diode laser all in one. And it has the capabilities of engraving metal, which is crazy to me. for a home shop laser that is sub $4,000.
It can laser engrave O1 tool steel, no issues. Like I put the popular woodworking logo on a, I did it on a hand plane blade, I did it on a couple of tool steel parallels I have, machinist parallels. Like that's crazy. That is a modern day tool. But like how else am I gonna do that if I wanted to do that in my shop? Like I'm not gonna buy.
gravers and an engraving vice to sit there and hand engrave stuff. Like I respect it I would love to learn that craft, but that's not what I have time for. So for me being able to drop a tool in there, set up a file in 30 seconds and run it, phenomenal. It's all about, I think, efficiencies and there are certain machines that I believe
It's not needed to make them any more complex than they are, you know?
Logan Wittmer (18:02.585) at the current shop state, I guess. Let me preface it with that. So like the jointer, the planer, those are pretty simple machines. Give me on off button, feed rollers turn on, feed rollers turn off. Bandsaw, same thing. Harvey does have their A15 intelligent bandsaw, as I mentioned, and it's a very cool machine. is, if you take the, they're calling it their intelligent bandsaw, there's a bunch of sensors in it. It reads out a bunch of parameters as it's
running, table angle, blade tension, all this stuff. Like that's all cool, but if you take that stuff out, it's just a really nicely made bandsaw. Like I have their Alpha here, and I thought that was a nice saw, but like looking at this thing, like this thing's that much better. It is a heavy saw. The guide system's fantastic on it.
Does the intelligent part necessitate me buying that? Absolutely not. Not at this point. Now, I think if you look 10 years down the road and it's like,
What I think would be cool is if you had your table saw, your bandsaw, your drill press, your joint, or they all had this, know, quote, intelligent feature where it's part of a shop hub and I can be standing at my bandsaw and I can pull up the plans on the bandsaw and I can tick off parts as I'm cutting parts to size. So I'm keeping track of parts or, you know, any of that stuff.
Like I think there's some cool potential there.
Logan Wittmer (19:46.471) in today's shop, it's not needed for how I work. But again, are people that absolutely want those bells and whistles. And I mean, we're, know.
I think what people are doing now, people being manufacturers, is they're starting to think outside the box a little bit, which is good, right? Like if we continued to make bandsaws like we did in the 30s, 40s, 50s, they'd be made really well, but nobody would be able to afford them. So, you know, there's...
there's some give and take there. Now, with, sorry John, with all that said, lathes are one thing that I think have really advanced.
because they do have the variable speed controls, servo motors. They have some advancements in modern lathes where, depending on the type of motor, they can increase torque when it's needed and not when it's not needed. So if you're taking a heavy cut, it actually will apply more torque to the motor to keep the speed up, which is not something we would have done 30 years ago. I mean, I think there's definitely some benefit to.
John Doyle (21:06.712) Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those features are, are marketing too, just because most people will buy a table saw or a bandsaw or drill press, and it's going to last their woodworking life and probably even get handed down to the next generation and last their woodworking life. So they always have to add more features or latest and greatest to get people to like, I need to get rid of my old bandsaw and get the, the new, you know, great thing and.
So keeps companies going, know, just gotta keep selling tools rather than things lasting forever. I mean, that's in all industries really. So.
Logan Wittmer (21:47.669) Yeah, no, I mean, you don't take...
technology and material engineering has evolved, right? So the cast iron of today is better than the cast iron of, you know, a hundred years ago, 100%. Quality control has gone up, processes to make it have gone up. Likewise, like if we're looking at a company like JPW, Jet Power Matic Wilton, so they released their Armor Glide coating that they put on their bandsaws, jointers, table saws.
John Doyle (21:59.928) Mm-hmm.
Logan Wittmer (22:19.895) It is a PFTE Teflon is the brand name coating that goes on their saws. It's fantastic. It works really nicely. There is also the Jet Black series, which is similar, little different coating, think, similar. It is very hard, very hard to get Teflon to stick to cast iron. I don't know the, the, you know, chemistry behind that, but it is hard. So that's something that wouldn't have been able to be done.
you know 50 years ago but they're able to get it to work and we have in the shop there with you guys we have the jet jointer and the band saw from Powermatic and both those were at my shop for a while so I got a lot of time with those it's a great advancement like that's fantastic
They don't rust when you get, you know, sawdust on them. If you don't have a climate controlled shop, they don't rust. You know, it's really nice. Likewise, Harvey has their new nickel plating, which same thing. It's fantastic. Low friction. But you're right. I think it is like a marketing thing to...
the easiest people to sell to are your people that have already bought from you right so it would be interesting to know like like Powermatic what's their repeat customer and what's the overall lifespan of their customer because
you buy six tools from Powermatic, your shop's pretty much equipped. Like the likelihood of that customer purchasing another Powermatic item is pretty low because their shop's pretty much equipped. Unless there's a new bandsaw that has a Teflon coating and it's like, oh, hey, you know what, that would be really nice. Or I wanna go from a 14 inch bandsaw to an 18 inch bandsaw. Like there's some of that, I'm sure. But you're right, there has to be...
Logan Wittmer (24:17.874) a reason for somebody to upgrade their tools, whether they need it or not, know, it's all a perceived value on what that customer wants. But yeah, I I guess at the end of the day, I see value in both sides of it, and I would never detract from anybody choosing one way or another. You if you want all the bells and whistles, more power to you. If you want big, dumb, stupid, simple machines, like go for it.
And I don't think there's any problem mixing and matching. That's what I've done. Honestly, that's why I bought the skid loader I bought. I could have got a bigger skid loader for the same price, but the one I bought, it's a Case 1845C, and I know there's gonna be one person that listens to this podcast and be like, yep, that's the bulletproof skid loader because they're all mechanical. There's no electronics in it. There's nothing to go wrong. you know, yeah.
I like bells and whistles. I love bells and whistles on certain things.
Phil (25:23.252) I mean, there's a, we talked about the production side of it, the marketing side of it, which all plays a role. think there's a...
I don't know, almost like an evolutionary aspect of it in the sense that you have different companies trying out different features. And some of those are going to turn out to be the standard features moving forward. And some of them are just kind of a dead end that never see the light of day again. And it's just kind of interesting to, you know, have companies that are willing to take a risk to try stuff, just to see what it's like.
Logan Wittmer (25:51.22) Yeah, for sure.
Phil (26:00.845) You know, like last week when we were talking about the Steel City things, like when their granite top table saws and joiners and bandsaw tables and whatever came out, everybody was like, man, this is super cool. It's way nicer than cast iron because of this, that, and the other thing. And it's like, yeah, in some ways it certainly is. And there was a, you know, a move that granite or other materials than cast iron would constitute.
Logan Wittmer (26:01.353) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (26:29.428) Mm-hmm.
Phil (26:31.116) machine tables and clearly cast or granite is not that one.
Logan Wittmer (26:37.182) Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Phil (26:38.336) you know, because nobody else is doing it.
Logan Wittmer (26:43.026) Yeah, I expect, and I don't know this, because there's, I think there are, and.
Obviously we know a lot of these manufacturers. We get to talk to them, you know, kind of behind the curtains for the most part. So we know a lot of this stuff, but like, I think obviously there, there are different market target markets for each brand, right? You got the, you got Grizzly that's making all a million tools targeting every budget out there from the beginner that wants a bench top tool for a hundred bucks to, you
know industrial tools that are $50,000 they got everything then you got JPW or jets kind of that every man serious woodworker and then Powermatics more that prosumer level
Harvey, think, I would group with Jet, and I'd put Laguna in that mix as well. So everybody's kind of targeting different segments, but kind of the same segments. And I think what we're going to see is the features that people start adding to tools that are successful, we're gonna start seeing those become the standard. So I think in 10 years,
I don't know that we'll see any cast iron tops anymore on something that is not coated with Teflon or plating.
Logan Wittmer (28:19.486) Personally, that's just my, I mean, that's just a guess. Knowing full well that a lot of these things are coming out of the same factories. So it's probably pretty easy for somebody like Laguna or Grizzly who does not have a coated surface currently to say, we know that you guys are making these for Powermatic.
Obviously they have patents on that but we want something similar that doesn't infringe upon their patents I I would be surprised if that doesn't happen now also You know one of the vendors we had it at WIA carbon method You know just on the the cast iron thing they they offer a cast iron coating that does very similar things to the Teflon and the
nickel plating. And it works really well. I use that on my table saw all the time. And on my vintage cast iron stuff because it's not cost effective to sit in a 36 inch bandsaw table out for Teflon coating.
John Doyle (29:24.44) Wouldn't it be cheaper just to spray like Pam cooking spray on the surfaces?
Logan Wittmer (29:30.611) But then the dogs just stop they don't stop licking it then Yeah Yeah, I mean, how do you think this guy's coat is so shiny?
John Doyle (29:40.022) Yeah.
Phil (29:40.821) Ha ha!
Logan Wittmer (29:43.376) The trick is that you have to buy the Pam baking spray, then it smells wonderful. It smells like vanilla.
John Doyle (29:48.024) Yeah, or just go with bacon grease. Just rub that in.
Logan Wittmer (29:52.336) Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Phil (29:55.628) Just a light coat. Buff it up.
Phil (30:02.518) All right, there you go.
Logan Wittmer (30:06.29) That was a rabbit hole, did not mean to go down. That's how we do it.
Phil (30:10.506) No, think it's... Well, I think it...
John Doyle (30:11.182) Yeah. Yeah. What, what was, I was just saying, what was up with all the like serious woodworking talk? Where, where did we, like, we totally like went off on a tangent there.
Logan Wittmer (30:17.98) Yeah.
Phil (30:22.186) Yeah, alienated all of our viewers.
Logan Wittmer (30:22.554) Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
John Doyle (30:24.84) Yeah. Anybody that's still left, we're about to get to the fun stuff.
Logan Wittmer (30:36.402) You know what I've been having a lot of fun with? Like kind of going off on a tangent again. I've been sawmilling the crap out of logs, right? Like after WIA I had the mill set up and I was getting through like three or four logs a day and I can get through logs really quickly. I've been having a heck of a fun time just cutting firewood. Like, yeah, like I love it. Like.
Phil (30:58.467) yeah.
Logan Wittmer (31:01.899) It's almost like it's more fun to cut and split the firewood than it is to make the boards.
John Doyle (31:06.22) Yeah. Yeah. We were all there last week and you had the ax there and we all took a chop at it. It's like, yeah, this is fun. So.
Logan Wittmer (31:11.056) Yeah!
Yeah, especially if you get a nice wood like so that there was a big oak log that was gonna bring. I think we talked about this. There was a big oak log I was gonna bring to WIA. couldn't get it picked up. That stuff splits so nice. Like wet oak and wet ash. it splits so wonderful. Walnut, same way. You know, cherry as well. But it's like, yeah, you take those offcuts. I built a sawbuck.
some reason, my tree guys like to drop pines off. I freaking hate sawing pines. you know, fills my way to get rid of pine boards, usually. So, but there was this little one and I'm like, it's like 10 inches in diameter. So it's like, well, where's a big bunch of four by four posts out of it? And then I cut them into, I basically screwed together a saw buck so I could take all my offcuts, set them onto this and then chop them to length. I've just been having so much fun doing it.
Phil (31:50.87) Yes.
Logan Wittmer (32:11.699) I don't know why and maybe it's just because it is I'm very result-driven so like I like to have something to show for the end of the day so it's like
All of sudden it's like, oh, I got a big stack of firewood and it's all nicely stacked around the patio of the shop. I don't know, just having fun doing it. I'm sure that there are people that are listening that grew up cutting firewood with a dad or a grandpa and are like, you're an idiot. Like that was the worst freaking time of my life. My dad hated it. Like my grandpa used to bring him cutting firewood. My dad absolutely despised it.
John Doyle (32:42.956) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (32:51.301) But then, I'm sure there are other people. I had a friend that stopped over a few days ago when I was actually out milling. He's like, man, he's like, I love cutting firewood. I like, I do too! So.
John Doyle (33:03.074) Yeah.
Phil (33:03.276) Well, it's one of those tasks. mean, and there's a bunch of woodworking tasks that are the same way where there's just enough mental engagement to keep you going on it through the repetition or the somewhat TDM on it, but it's not super demanding of a high level of focus. And like you said, you can end up, you start with like a big pile of just
Logan Wittmer (33:20.603) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Phil (33:32.18) random stuff, and then you work through, and then it turns into a big pile of prepared whatever. I mean, it's very similar, I would think, to saw milling, especially working through your backlog, where you have literally backlogs of just random logs piled up, and then to turn them into boards where it's like, now I can do something with this.
Logan Wittmer (33:38.395) Yep, ready to go, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (33:44.815) It is, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (33:50.042) Yep.
John Doyle (33:58.374) It's kind of like saying, you know what's fun? Pouring concrete or you know what's fun? Roofing. It's like, it's all right if you can do it on your own, like just do it for fun. But then it's like, if you had to do it every day in a hundred degree heat and a hundred, a hundred percent humidity, not so fun.
Phil (34:02.731) the
Logan Wittmer (34:04.585) Hahaha!
Logan Wittmer (34:09.925) Yes.
Logan Wittmer (34:15.185) accurate. Also, why I'm mentioning this at the end of October when it's 50 degrees out I can have a flannel on splitting firewood. You know, I put my headphones on and listen to an audiobook as I'm Which side note, okay, this is I have an issue with hearing protection manufacturers, okay, and I know they do this for a reason. I have a couple of Bluetooth headsets.
John Doyle (34:20.653) Yeah.
Phil (34:39.02) All right.
Logan Wittmer (34:44.784) that I have an Isotunes Work Connect. It's a big orange one. actually has a microphone so I can talk to somebody else that I was working with, which is actually really nice if we're sawmilling and stuff. Then I have set of the 3M Solar Connects. So they charge with solar power, so as you're outside working, end of the day they're still at like 100%, which is pretty cool.
I can't get the volume high enough on those to hear my audiobook over like a chainsaw or the skid loader, which I know it's a volume thing. you're, they're trying like that. I'm sure there's regulations. Like you can't be louder than X, Y, Z decimals, but it's really annoying. Like it's almost like I need to put my AirPods in my ears, play my book through those and then put headphones on.
Logan Wittmer (35:38.874) First world problems, am I right?
Phil (35:45.132) All right, there you go.
All right, John, what's the latest with you?
John Doyle (35:51.247) what is the latest with me? We were getting ready to start shooting the TV show, getting projects and that kind of got kicked to the side. We have a waiting on a camera. So working ahead on the next project design for Woodsmith, which is actually a box that Phil built. So.
the other day that I don't know what you call it that little spice box and it's like, it's like, I'll just draw that up. That can be a project in the magazine. So, you know.
Phil (36:21.355) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (36:27.599) You got our table saw outfeed table drawn up yet?
John Doyle (36:31.271) I have concepts of a plan, as they say.
Logan Wittmer (36:34.753) Okay. That's how I build all my stuff.
John Doyle (36:38.26) Right. yeah, it's, if we, if we had to start building it today, I'd be ready. got all the stuff I got, you know, concepts of a plan drawn up. So, but it's kind of like the workbenches that we did for this,
Logan Wittmer (36:49.624) Okay.
John Doyle (36:55.84) all new like one wall workshop or whatever we're calling for this class. I drew up the concept, but then I was building it. So it's like, kind of built it and changed as I went and changed things. And so then I had to go back and redo the drawings to reflect what I actually built. So.
Logan Wittmer (37:14.681) Yeah, which to be completely fair, that is exactly how I build stuff. Like if I have an idea, I'll draw it up in SketchUp to the best of my ability, and I wanna be very clear, to the best of my ability, which is not very good. And then I'll build it and I'll be like, okay, this is how I actually wanna do this, and then I'll take a bunch of photos with my phone and then I'll have Danny, I'll change the SketchUp model, because I don't know how to do that in SketchUp.
John Doyle (37:39.598) Yeah. Yeah.
Phil (37:43.446) So then here's a question for both of you.
on a project like that, at what point do you feel, you know, like where's the tipping point between I have enough drawn up that I can freestyle after that versus like, it's also the enthusiasm, like I'm sick of drawing stuff, I just need to build it.
John Doyle (38:05.422) Yeah, usually if it's me building, it's like, here's a general sketch of the basic sizes and then I start building and then kind of go back and forth of like, okay, I have the...
Logan Wittmer (38:15.939) Yeah, that's, yeah, as long as I have, yeah, part dimensions.
John Doyle (38:21.366) Yeah, start with the outer whatever the case or the main part and then you're doors to that or drawers or you start fitting or kind of moving stuff around a little bit. But as long as I have the basic overall size, you know.
I just like to start building. So that's a little bit different than normal when it's like I have to do all the drawings and then hand them off to Mark. And that's a little bit more stressful because it's like, I don't know what this is gonna be actual like when it's built. So.
Logan Wittmer (38:41.346) That's, yeah.
Logan Wittmer (38:55.33) Yeah, if I can have dimensions where I can roll in there and say, okay, I know these rails are this long, visible plus tenons, that's all I need. Like if I can get, I try to, I go for proportions first and then dimensions. So it's like if it looks right and is the right size, I'm ready to go. Like I don't need, I don't need the,
joinery, I'll draw it out. I don't need to know what the tenon size are because honestly it doesn't really matter. As long as the sizes are all there, there are certain things that do not matter. Tenon dimensions, mortises, that type stuff. Grooves, dados, rabbits, that stuff doesn't really matter and it can all be changed.
As long as outer dimensions are ready to go, let's full send.
John Doyle (39:54.319) Yeah, the last box that I drew up and was a project for the magazine, I drew it all up and handed it off to Mark and didn't see it again until it was built. And it's like, that was a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be. Like, didn't really have a concept of like, you know, actual proportional size. So it's like sometimes it's like, maybe I should have done a little prototype or mock up or something in real life. yeah, sometimes it's just hard to picture.
Logan Wittmer (40:06.733) Yeah
John Doyle (40:21.962) sizes when you're just looking at dimensions.
Logan Wittmer (40:24.621) Yeah, well it's like I'm working on this this mahogany table for the same church I built these doors for I'm sure I'm gonna I'm going to reveal my
obliviousness to this but like I'm sure there's something I'm sure there's a name for this but it's when you walk into this church there's a table an entry table that has a tray with sand and you like candles and you put the candles in there right so I'm sure there's it's I think an Orthodox church thing so that's what this table is and I have it all drawn up in Sketchup
I do, I will point out, I do try to actually include joinery so there's less work for Danielle when she gets into it. More so so there's less questions that I have to answer when it comes to it. But I have it drawn up and I'm looking at it and it looks like it's way longer than it wants to be.
but it's like I'm kind of building it for the space and I texted everybody, I'm like, hey guys, like, you know, I built this in SketchUp, I have a 3D model, you know, stylistically it looks great. It's gonna match what we want it to look like, but overall it's so much longer than it should be. Like it's 70 inches and it's only 18 inches deep, so it's really long and really shallow. I'm like proportionally,
it wants to be like 60 inches. And they're like, yeah, we get it, we know, but no. I'm like, like, dang it. Because as a, I mean, I understand, I am building it for the space. I'm building it for a particular space and that is where it's gonna go and that's where it has to live. It is what it is.
Logan Wittmer (42:24.16) But part of me also says, aw, as a woodworker, like I want it to look right. It'll probably be fine.
Logan Wittmer (42:38.092) It might be opposite what John said. Am I build it? Be like, yeah, that looks right.
John Doyle (42:41.952) Yeah. Happy accidents, like you said.
Logan Wittmer (42:44.8) Yeah, happy accidents. Speaking of which, I'm gonna try to wear this shirt during one of our podcasts. So people need to watch for that. It is a Bob Ross painting shirt. Yep, so you guys be on the lookout for that.
Phil (43:01.388) Bob Ross button down.
Phil (43:08.652) Feels like that needs to be a TV show shirt at some point too. that for an episode.
Logan Wittmer (43:11.628) Yeah, how would PBS feel about that? I don't know.
Phil (43:17.482) I think they'd be all right. I think we'd be okay.
Logan Wittmer (43:19.222) think so. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah, I do have a Ron Swanson one too. I have a Nick Offerman shirt, Ooh.
John Doyle (43:19.886) Get a Mr. Rogers one. I don't know who else.
Phil (43:23.276) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (43:29.39) Okay. Yeah. Maybe a reading rainbow shirt. That'd be cool.
Phil (43:34.453) there we go. That'd be sweet.
Logan Wittmer (43:37.311) I don't think they make one of those, but these are all ideas.
John Doyle (43:38.926) Yeah, I think reading rainbows coming back though, right? Gritty reboot. But don't take my word for it.
Phil (43:40.598) Challenge accepted. Yes.
Logan Wittmer (43:42.984) It is, yes.
Logan Wittmer (43:52.745) Now, the other one would be Wishbone, right? At least from my childhood.
You guys were probably too old for wishbone.
Phil (44:06.252) My childhood entertainment usually consisted of like Robotech and GI Joe Transformers.
John Doyle (44:18.614) mask Voltron
Phil (44:20.308) Mask. Mm-hmm. Voltron, My younger brother was kind of into Thundercats for a while.
Logan Wittmer (44:29.874) yeah. yeah, your younger brother and I are close to the same age. Yeah.
Phil (44:33.94) Yeah.
Phil (44:38.304) But then all your classics, like DuckTales and Darkwing Duck and...
Logan Wittmer (44:45.291) Wishbone was a children's television series that aired from 95 to 97 on PBS. There's a little Jack Russell terrier. His name, his name was Wishbone. If that wasn't clear.
John Doyle (44:52.108) Okay, yeah.
John Doyle (44:59.596) I would have been in high school at that time. So was not catching that.
Logan Wittmer (45:03.371) You
You would have been the odd child if you did.
John Doyle (45:08.79) Yeah, yep.
Phil (45:09.802) Yeah. Then we, I had to skip ahead for my kids and then it was, you know, like Martha Speaks and Arthur and Super Y. Yeah. Woodsmith Shop. Otherwise known as Woodworking Wiggles.
Logan Wittmer (45:19.039) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (45:19.992) the woodsmith shop.
Logan Wittmer (45:21.673) What's the shop?
Logan Wittmer (45:26.067) Yeah.
Phil (45:34.86) All right. See, we did it. One full sauna session for the Shop Notes podcast, episode number 250.
Hard to believe we started this in January of 2020, mostly out of rage and spite because other folk in the company were saying how hard it was to start a podcast because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And folk over at Woodsmith decided like, hey, hold my beer. We can do this.
Logan Wittmer (46:11.859) And you know what? They were right though.
John Doyle (46:14.071) you
Phil (46:14.22) They were, but their podcasts aren't still going and ours is.
John Doyle (46:17.047) Yeah.
Logan Wittmer (46:23.113) Yeah.
John Doyle (46:24.364) Still with all the rage and spite.
Phil (46:26.464) Yes, that's really the secret ingredient.
Logan Wittmer (46:30.421) Yeah.
Phil (46:33.248) Dr. Banner has it right, you're just angry all the time. Yep, that's how you do it.
Logan Wittmer (46:36.221) Always angry. Yep, just always angry.
Phil (46:41.344) All right, if you have any angry comments that you want to submit, you can put those in on our show notes.
comment section on YouTube, Shop Notes podcast. We have our own channel for it. Like and subscribe and get the notifications for all that. You can also send us an email, woodsmith at woodsmith.com. Just let us know that it's a podcast comment on there and we will feed off of it.
like Minox on the power cables. That's what we are.
All right. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week. Bye.
