Woodworking In America
The next Woodworking In America is October 9 & 10 2026 in Des Moines. Get early bird pricing before August 1.
Woodworking Tours
We're working on the schedule of woodworking tours for 2027 (already). Looks like a Japan trip, another Scandi trip, and two! domestic tours.
At the same time, John wondered about whether there was enough woodworking sites in Iowa to see to fill a tour. Turns out there is.
I'd like to know if you could plan a 2-5 day woodworking tour for your area? What sites, places, and people would you take a woodworker to see?
John's Treasure Hunt
John and I rescued a vintage Craftsman radial arm saw stand. What will be do with it? No clue. But John's experience with Logan's restoring hand tools class has him haunting Marketplace for other deals.
Hear about his trip in search of some old Woodsmith & ShopNotes history.
Transcript
Phil Huber (00:12.423) It's the ShopNotes Podcast, everybody. Episode new number 277. I'm Phil with Logan and John today. We got a lot of ground to cover. Gonna start with some viewer and listener comments. John's got a question of the week about tours. we'll get an update on Woodworking in America and talk about vintage machinery and paint.
All that and more, let's get this party started.
All right, we're gonna kick things off with listener comments here.
One says I have I too have my grandfather's Stanley number four plane, John. Could never figure out figure out why it didn't work until I learned how to clean it up and sharpen the blade. Voila Looks and works great now. It's nice to have something of my grandfather's who got me started in woodworking.
John Doyle (01:26.606) It's amazing what a sharp tool will do.
Logan (01:28.832) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (01:31.625) did you give yours to your dad?
John Doyle (01:35.023) no, I kept it because I decided I needed to repaint the the body of it, so I haven't done that yet. But I sh I sent him pictures prior to the podcast airing last Friday. So he's seen it, he knows. We can talk freely. So yeah, there's it's not a secret. Yeah.
Logan (01:37.615) Thanks.
Logan (01:55.565) Yeah, here, don't be surprised. You're welcome.
Phil Huber (02:02.576) Don't be surprised and or disappointed that you still haven't gotten it.
John Doyle (02:06.092) Yeah. Come visit it anytime.
Logan (02:09.134) You
Phil Huber (02:12.136) Bony Board Woodshop says my favorite of vintage tools are the patent planes. They're just so cool. I have a Union X6 that I need a new tote and knob for. If John wants to move to Florida, he should take up collecting vintage walkers and canes. Probably an untapped market.
John Doyle (02:34.392) Cane rentals. 'Cause you don't need that long.
Before you age out, you know.
Logan (02:39.758) That's right.
Phil Huber (02:42.47) There you go. Although you did have the good idea of maybe branching out, if canes and walkers are the hand tools of the Florida used tool market, then golf carts and hover rounds would be the like power power tool version.
Phil Huber (03:03.388) Driftless Joinery says they make a plastic tube like thing with metal ends to fit various plumbing fixtures. That thing is amazing if you're ever doing any sink or faucet work from inside the cabinet rather than the old style basin wrenches. Going back to our discussion on starter tools. Which I have to say that I'm not familiar with the tool that he's talking about. So
John Doyle (03:30.85) probably why we struggle with plumbing. We don't know the tools.
Phil Huber (03:38.514) Yep. DP Meyer, because what else is this podcast good for than veering off topic? When moving out of a college apartment in the early nineties, we had a few small nail holes to patch on beige walls. We only had white spackle. The white on beige patches seemed worse than not patching at all. So we tinted the spackle with some Nestle's quick and it matched perfectly.
Logan (04:09.71) Well that's a thing. I feel like the statute of limitations on that one's ran out, so that's why we're talking about it now.
Phil Huber (04:17.243) Right, yeah. That and all you have to do is get past that inspection.
Logan (04:21.838) That's fair.
Phil Huber (04:25.275) Puppy Doc says, Logan helped me restore a hand plane. And that was my introduction to the hand tool world. I've since purchased a couple new hand planes and truly love just making the shavings for the sake of making shavings. Occasionally I have pulled out a plane for actual work, but sometimes I just need a shavings fix. Making shavings is still woodworking, technically, right?
Phil Huber (04:49.957) I would say yes, because you could just call spills and use them for lighting fires.
John Doyle (04:58.476) Which is a whole nother hobby to get into.
Logan (05:00.43) Lighting fires, arson?
John Doyle (05:02.722) Yeah, yeah.
Phil Huber (05:07.754) Bob goes on to say I still have some vintage Harbor Freight tools from back in the day. Back in the day where they weren't really known for any kind of quality at all. I wonder if there's a resale market for them.
Logan (05:20.408) Yeah, local Metro Waste Authority has a buyback program. You pay $20 or you drop as many of them as your truck bed will handle.
Phil Huber (05:28.573) There you go.
Almost perfection says not exactly tools, but I always have duct tape, painter's tape, Teflon tape, super glue, and three in one oil in my house toolbox.
Logan (05:41.603) Teflon tape's a good one. That's not one I had considered. I don't think I have a lot of stuff in the house that I use it on, but I use the crap out of it here in the shop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Use it on drawer slides, stuff like that. We used to have it. I had acquired a roll of Teflon tape from the print shop when I managed that.
Phil Huber (05:52.67) yeah.
Phil Huber (05:58.151) Okay.
Logan (06:09.102) We used it on our mole folder gluer to do like pocket folders and stuff like that. Um, for some of the plows and stuff. I'm like, that's the slicks, like grab.
or it's at right now, but I use it pretty regularly. It's not and it's not like the like we've used the PFT tape like the you know, it's almost like a high HDPE tape with adhesive back on it. We've used that before for slides. The stuff I have is different. It looks more like fiberglass tape, but it's like super low friction. Yeah, it's interesting. I'll have to see if I can find it and take a picture.
Phil Huber (06:42.577) Hmm. Okay.
John Doyle (06:47.878) if we're throwing duct tape into the mix, should we throw in a little like travel bottle of WD forty? I mean that's okay.
Phil Huber (06:54.321) Right. Maybe. I think that's where he's going with maybe the three and one oil, but yeah, being able to spray it is a is a good shot too.
John Doyle (06:59.441) yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Both yeah, both of those are good.
Phil Huber (07:06.205) Ono there we go. Logan's got it.
Logan (07:06.626) Found it.
Logan (07:11.106) this stuff. is a, yeah, it's this stuff. It's, they literally call it, so it's Uline. They literally call it fiberglass tape, but it's like low friction fiberglass tape. So.
Phil Huber (07:24.061) All right. We'll put a link to it in the show notes page, maybe on the description for the video. And then you too can get U line catalogs from now until you die every two weeks.
Logan (07:37.87) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (07:38.558) U-line catalogs are are actually one of those fun things to get in the mail because they have everything. Like even my wife like like yeah, even my wife likes thumbing through it. So it's like the internet but printed
Logan (07:43.882) Everything. It's like Grizzly. It's like the Grizzly catalog. Yeah.
You
Phil Huber (07:59.346) Ono Coffee says, I'd like to think I have some critical process to bring tools into the shop, but it's really more by feel. What do I need or think I need? Or what tool will give me extra capacity, even though I don't quite need it now? I picked up an Elu DS140 pivoting biscuit joiner because it's a hallmark tool despite mainly using the domino. Like Logan and his chair tools, I pick up tools.
To ensure future capacity.
Logan (08:31.31) That's right.
Phil Huber (08:32.689) I'm gonna have to look up that biscuit joiner.
Logan (08:35.5) Yeah, so back to the tape for a second. This is way more expensive than I remember it being.
Phil Huber (08:38.534) Okay.
Logan (08:44.494) And I bought it. This was not the one I acquired. I bought this one, a two inch by 18 yard roll, 18 yard. Um, it is called fiberglass tape coated with Teflon PF, PTFE $61 per roll.
Phil Huber (08:53.104) Okay.
Phil Huber (09:04.327) Whoa. All right.
John Doyle (09:05.272) Hang on to that.
Logan (09:05.678) She expensive. Now I know why I had to open it. I was saving it.
Phil Huber (09:13.917) All right.
Captain Quahog says, is this where one asks questions of the shop notes gurus? Yes. Yes, it is. I just received my first water stones, the Norton two stone set. So two double sided stones. The 4,000 grit stone has some very small dings on one edge, and the 8,000 grit stone has a small chip in one corner.
My gut feeling is that these small imperfections won't matter, but my gut has been known to lead me astray. Once I flatten the stones a few times, if the dings don't propagate, they would just disappear, or so my gut says. But for two hundred plus dollars should I expect flawless stones, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
John Doyle (10:10.06) I know where you can get some good diamond stones. Diamonds are forever.
Logan (10:12.45) I do too.
Well, John, were you, was that when we were filming the online ad that I pulled out my classes or I pulled out my classes, pull out my stones in the holder and my $200 ceramic stone had the corners chipped. So it's one of those things like those stones, the, the, the manmade artificial stones, like the Norton's, this, um, this is a ceramic one from why is it slipping my brain? Um,
Anyways, it's a nice ceramic one. Um, shaften, uh, they're brittle. Like there's just, it's, it is what it is. Like the edges are the most brittle. If there are chips in the edge, like you're not, you're not sharpened on the edge anyways. Like you are going to dish out the center. That's not gonna be fair. ever touch an edge. I would personally not worry about it. I get it. I do get it, but I would not worry about it whatsoever.
You're more likely to drop that stone and break something than that chip is to bother your sharper.
Phil Huber (11:19.345) Right. That's kind of what I was thinking, and I've even seen and have done just because of how fragile or crumbly some of those edges can be, is to just take a diamond stone and quick rub a slight chamfer on all the edges.
Logan (11:35.361) chamfer. Yep. Yep. That's exactly what I would do too. Um, but I mean, you're going to flatten out that chamfer at some point, but yeah, I would just chamfer. I would like, I might even use a diamond set. I might grab a fairly fine file and just do a couple of swipes on it and just knock those corners off. Cause they're in chip anyways.
Phil Huber (11:55.794) Yeah. It always feels like on sharpening stones too that if you don't have a little bit of a chamfer or some kind of rounding on it, if your blade gets close to that edge, that'll leave a ridge. Kinda too, just because of uneven pressure. So yeah, I don't think it's a big deal. For two hundred dollars, I think you're looking at you know, for
Logan (12:09.815) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (12:25.085) A hobbyist woodworker, that's like a lifetime set of sharpening stones.
Logan (12:29.943) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (12:31.433) And you're buying longevity rather than cosmetic perfection.
Logan (12:39.234) Yep, I agree. Yep, I won't worry about it.
Phil Huber (12:39.815) That that'd be my thought.
Phil Huber (12:46.717) I mean, we've even broken stones here and then just glued them back together with epoxy and just carried on with our lives. And they work work pretty well.
Phil Huber (13:02.791) All right. That's it for listener and viewer comments. always love to hear what you're thinking about or any responses, questions, comments, and smart remarks from previous episodes. Happy to do so. also want to take a little moment here. It's summertime. This one goes out pretty much. It'll be the third of July 2026 when this goes out. If you're traveling.
And passing through the Midwest, let us know. Send us an email and stop in for a tour of the TV show set, the shop at Woodsmith, our photo studio. See the room where it happened, so to speak. So love to have you. Just send us an email along with your questions, comments, and smart remarks, Woodsmith at Woodsmith.com, just so we know when to expect you.
Otherwise, for other comments, just put those in the YouTube channel, Shop Notes Podcast. Like and subscribe and send that along so other people can find it as well.
Logan (14:13.646) smash that bell button to get notifications. You forgot that part.
Phil Huber (14:17.359) Right. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. speaking of traveling to Iowa, couple of things coming up. Woodworking in America is in October. We're at the early bird registration time. there's ticket sales are going really well this year, I believe. Just got a update from our marketing department on that.
So pretty excited about that. So if you wanna get in with a discounted rate, be sure you check that out over at woodworkinginamerica.com. You can see the list of presenters and get signed up. We'd love to have you.
Logan (15:00.802) And if you don't want to get into this kind of rate, we are worth the full price of mission as well. So that's just on you. We call that philanthropy.
John Doyle (15:04.982) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (15:05.189) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
John Doyle (15:07.778) Yeah.
Phil Huber (15:14.301) then later in September Logan and I are heading to Denmark and Sweden with a group of folk and that is sure to be
I'm excited about that particular trip. That'll be a lot of fun. Got some good people going on it. The chat has died down in the last couple of weeks, but I think I'm pretty sure we can stir the pot on that one and get that.
Logan (15:41.164) I, yeah, I was going to say, I don't remember if I muted that chat or if it just has died down.
Phil Huber (15:47.752) Could be, yeah. And that was bringing up some ideas for tours for twenty twenty seven. And then John, you had a great idea question related to tours. You want to share that?
John Doyle (16:00.664) Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, I mean we've you've done the European tours, you've got Japan on the list and thinking about some domestic tours. And my question was, what would a Iowa woodworking tour look like? What would your stops be? What are the must see?
Logan (16:20.846) you
John Doyle (16:26.392) What's on your list? I had a few. Do you want me to share mine first? Okay. So I was thinking east coast of Iowa. You got Dib Dubuque Toolworks. in Dubuque, Iowa. would be a good one. I have not been. I would that'd be someplace cool to kind of check out. Umanas. Yep, yep, yep. So Amanas would be a good one.
Phil Huber (16:30.47) Yeah, go.
Logan (16:48.494) It's my mom, pop clamp manufacturer. Yep.
John Doyle (16:56.84) maybe even hit that during what is the thing over there? The handworks, yes, handworks. Oktoberfest as well. Yep, that sounds terrible, but it was the worst. Yeah, so Amana's here in Des Moines, of course we got Woodsmith Wood magazine down the hill, if you want to go slum it.
Phil Huber (17:01.873) Hand works. Yeah.
Logan (17:04.174) Oh, I was gonna say Oktoberfest. They just had, they just had worst fest last weekend.
It was awesome. It was the worst.
Logan (17:25.996) Yeah, yeah.
John Doyle (17:26.636) But Craig Tool is right here in the Metro. I'm sure they would be happy to host. But and then we have of course we don't want to leave that old masters up in Orange City. We're those were a few of my things. I know Phil came up with a few too, but like what would
Logan (17:42.968) Mm-hmm.
Logan (17:48.143) I say, yeah, I had, I would go, if we're going back to the East coast, like if we're going east to west, I would on the way here or on the way to a manna, see if you get into visit the bench crafted guys. They're in Cedar Rapids. while you're there, I would also hit wood Haven. What Haven's down in Iowa city. I don't say it's, I don't think it's Iowa city. I think it's like.
John Doyle (18:02.684) yeah, yeah. It's right there.
John Doyle (18:15.998) Mm-hmm.
Logan (18:17.58) West Liberty or something over there somewhere, right? What havens the manufacturer of like a bunch of, what'd you say? Shop fixtures, maybe. So the best way. Yep. Yep. They're they are there. I would hit those. think you nailed the ones in Des Moines. We have, you know, obviously hit the manna furniture shop. that's pretty good one. Furniture shop and clock shop.
Phil Huber (18:28.059) Yeah, they're like a jig jigs and accessories kinda yeah.
Logan (18:47.15) Des Moines would be Craig obviously. And if you wanted to visit the wood magazine guys, you could. Um, trunk trunk is
John Doyle (18:55.622) yeah, I forgot po yeah, chunka chunk popwood headquarters right here. East east of the metro.
Logan (18:59.01) Yep. That's here. Yep. That's here. Peruse the, the bespoke lumber selection, which I'm getting low on my curly ash that I've been shipping all over the U S then I would also hit in Walnut, Iowa. have, is it Blum tool company?
John Doyle (19:05.006) Yeah.
Phil Huber (19:17.99) yeah. Yep.
John Doyle (19:18.609) is that there?
Logan (19:19.788) Yep. He's out there getting towards Omaha. you old masters. It is. Yeah, it is. those are the, I think, I think you kind of hit it. What else does Phil have on?
John Doyle (19:24.29) Big antique area too in Walnut. Huge.
Phil Huber (19:35.143) Well, there are several things that I was thinking of just
of different sites. Like John mentioned Dubuque. what's not known, I think, is that Dubuque and what's one other coastal city over there were centers of millwork production way back in the day. Yeah.
Logan (19:58.521) Burlington, right?
John Doyle (20:01.264) that's where the coat factory is.
Logan (20:03.298) Yes. Yes. I'm pretty sure it was, wasn't it Burlington that was known as like the, like, it was like the lumber capital of the U S at one point, because all the lumber used to come down the river and get there.
Phil Huber (20:05.437) Ha ha.
Phil Huber (20:17.691) Right. And then they would like Dubuque has a whole I mean, they have a historic district called the Millwork District, where it was like one of the largest millwork plants in the world at the time. because that was like where it was like the confluence of where the lumber comes down the Mississippi and where it meets all the train lines that go east and west to get everywhere. So
Logan (20:27.489) Mmm.
Logan (20:41.262) I'm sorry, it was not Burlington. was Clinton. Clinton is known as the lumber capital of the world historically between the 1850s and 1900s.
Phil Huber (20:45.223) Okay.
Phil Huber (20:52.017) Yeah. So, you know, there's some historic stuff there.
Phil Huber (21:01.543) There are what was the other one? There's a couple of guitar makers in the Des Moines area. That would be kind of cool to see their work, you know, where you could see a craftsman producing producing stuff. I think the Amana's still have they do some lumbering and veneer work too, right?
Logan (21:12.834) Mm-hmm.
Logan (21:28.686) They do, they have a sawmill, um, in the manna. So the manna has a sawmill. So the manna society has like thousands, tens of thousands of acres that belongs to like the manna historical society. Um, when I lived over there, uh, back in high school, we used to be able to turkey hunt the timber, um, which is pretty cool, but they, the sawmill, think harvests like damaged trees out of that timber. So they have a lot to pick from.
Phil Huber (21:30.79) Yeah.
Phil Huber (21:44.114) Yeah.
Logan (21:57.321) and they do, they do that. I don't know, like the kit, the cabinet shop, like, don't know how much they do veneer work or how much they use of the lumber shop stuff. Like I know they buy a lot of stuff in, but yeah, they, they have, they kind of have a whole ecosystem type thing going on.
Phil Huber (22:14.065) Yeah. So I think that's that would be kind of worthwhile to see. In the Des Moines area, there are a couple of historic houses. the governor's mansion, state capitol has some really cool both of those have really cool woodworking on display that you'd be able to see. And then there's a house actually not far from the woodsmith offices called the Salisbury House. And that was built by a guy who was
Logan (22:44.206) He was famous for his steaks, wasn't he?
Phil Huber (22:44.825) In the Yes. Yeah. In addition to his stakes, he was in the cosmetics industry. And in furn building and furnishing his house, he actually went around England and other parts of Europe and found run down houses or whatever and just brought them over wholesale to be reconstructed. So like the main dining room is like from the hall of a
old abbey or something like that. And there's like this humongous dining table in there that's made out of a single board. It's like twenty feet long and like three and a half feet wide. It's just a ginormous piece of wood. So it's kind of cool to to see that sort of thing. Living History Farms, just by its nature, has a has a wide variety of woodworking on display from, you know, like real
Logan (23:35.062) Hmm, that'll be a one,
Phil Huber (23:43.352) average everyday pieces up to some high style pieces all in a in original setting. If you could get to open up the cabinet maker shop, you'd see like what a like a frontier town cabinet maker shop would look like. up in Mason City is a couple of Frank Lloyd Wright places. So that would be kind of cool to be able to see too.
John Doyle (24:09.774) There's a I remember now, yeah, there's a Frank Lloyd Wright house near Quasquiton, Iowa as well, in kind of the northeast area. So be another one you could swing by.
Phil Huber (24:26.779) Yeah.
John Doyle (24:28.374) I did a quick Google search to see what they would come up with for woodworking tourism in Iowa. And Robbie Peterson, who does the period woodworking in Jefferson, late 1800s, early 1900s, furniture and woodworking.
Logan (24:43.534) Mm-hmm.
Logan (24:47.104) Is it 1801 would work? that what it is?
Phil Huber (24:50.299) Eighteen seventy five, I think. R VP R V P eighteen seventy five or something like that.
John Doyle (24:51.5) eighteen seventy five.
Yep, yep, yep. some that I have never heard of. Turkey River Cultural Center and Wood Carving Museum in Ridgeway, Iowa. That sounds that sounds made up. Has anybody heard of Ridgway, Iowa before? Okay. Can confirm there is no such place. Is there a casey
Logan (25:13.206) I say I'm also, I'm still Googling the place where you said there was a Frank Lloyd right now, cause I haven't heard of Quasketon. No!
John Doyle (25:18.218) qua you yeah, you've never that's like just that's your old that's not too far from my wife's hometown of of Walker. It'd be East Buchanan School District would be that area north of Cedar Rapids. I went there one one fourth of July. Not yeah, yeah, right by Independence. So it's over there. I got a house. Frank Lloyd Wright house over there. So along the along the Wapsapinakin River.
Logan (25:30.958) Okay.
Logan (25:36.79) That's over by independence. Okay. Okay.
Logan (25:44.749) Didn't know that.
Phil Huber (25:47.741) Mm.
John Doyle (25:48.696) For for those who know.
Logan (25:50.872) Great walleye fishing.
Phil Huber (25:51.166) Side note, yeah, in addition to that, great walleye fishing and canoeing river and a very amazing type of tomato that's called the Wapsapinnican peach. So it's a smallish size tomato. Smallish size tomato, but it actually has like a fuzzy skin on it, like a peach does.
Logan (26:09.838) some misnomer.
Logan (26:18.252) Hmm. I feel like that's a member of the nightshade family. You're not supposed to eat.
John Doyle (26:22.286) Eat it once.
Logan (26:25.396) Mwahahahaha
Phil Huber (26:25.701) Right.
All mushrooms are edible, some only once. there was another one that I thought of was the the Vesterheim Museum in in Decora. a lot of Scandinavian immigrants that came to the US settled in Iowa, so much so that they're called Iowegians in some places. And they have a pretty extensive collection of woodwork, both from
Logan (26:37.768) yeah, that'd be a one. Yeah. Yup.
Logan (26:50.775) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (26:58.577) Folk who moved here and created stuff here, but also historic pieces from Norway, Sweden, Denmark kinda area.
Logan (27:05.218) Yep. And while you're there, obviously you would be remiss to not visit Topling Goliath Brewery in Decora. There's yeah. Yep.
Phil Huber (27:11.483) Right. Yeah. It's a pretty part of the state too. It's the part of the part of the driftless area.
John Doyle (27:20.718) Apparently also up there is Becker Wood Carving Museum in Dyersville, Iowa. So that's a northeast side. I've never heard of that as well. Or Edgewood, Iowa, that's also Northeast. I've heard of Kendrick Forest Products. They do like logging stuff, but I didn't know they did tours. You can get a five dollar guided tour available by appointment. So
Phil Huber (27:28.615) Okay.
Phil Huber (27:42.844) Okay.
Logan (27:44.014) All right. I edge would has a great locker meat locker there. Yeah. Everyone's known another for their deer sticks.
John Doyle (27:45.495) You should yeah. yes. We get we get deer sticks from them, yes. So I mean if you're going on a woodworking t tour, you might as well have meats and fine meats and fine beverages and yeah, yeah.
Logan (28:00.184) Yeah, at meats and sudo su beer, yeah.
Phil Huber (28:01.307) Right. I especially if especially if you're going through the amanas, let's stop at the meat shop there too. So
John Doyle (28:07.563) yeah. Yep. Yep.
Logan (28:07.854) That's fair.
Phil Huber (28:11.623) All right, so we're booking a tru tour next year, maybe twenty twenty eight, the hidden gems of Iowa craft that you can find around woodworking. Yeah. Yep. We'll stop at the
Logan (28:13.998) I'm
John Doyle (28:14.254) Yeah.
Logan (28:21.452) Woodworking,
We'll try to avoid the corn sweats in July, because we're in middle of that right now. We don't want to do that.
Phil Huber (28:30.437) Right. Yeah. We'll stop at the what's the place that we stopped at up by Old Masters, the restaurant? Something Wayside? Archie's Wayside. That would be a great destination.
Logan (28:37.966) Archie's Wayside? Heck yes.
best, best stakes in the state of Iowa.
Phil Huber (28:47.217) Yeah. I
John Doyle (28:47.554) Maybe we just take woodworking America on on the road next fall. Cause I mean northeast Iowa is kind of the place to be, see leaves and all that stuff. We just reverse reverse rag brai. Instead bikes, we take buses across Iowa and
Logan (28:51.245) Yeah.
Logan (28:56.942) Yeah.
Phil Huber (28:56.977) Mm-hmm. yeah.
Phil Huber (29:02.141) There we go.
Logan (29:04.706) I mean, that's kind of what most reg reg people do anyways, isn't it? That's shots at all the bikers.
John Doyle (29:07.532) Yeah, just take the bus. Yeah. Great. Now we're gonna hear from them.
Phil Huber (29:08.061) yeah.
Logan (29:16.407) Yep.
Phil Huber (29:18.949) right. So my follow-up question to John's about an Iowa woodworking tour is think about the region that you're from. And if you were to have a woodworking one of the podcast listeners, Puppy Doc, any of those guys come in to see you and you wanted to show them all the woodworking sites in your area, what would they be? Where would you list them off? Puppy Doc, this one's out for you too. Like
If people are coming to visit you and see some cool woodworking, where would you take them? Can you come up with a weekend trip of three or four sites, maybe more?
love to hear what you have to say in the comments section on there. So
yeah, great idea. And like I said, we'll be I'm guessing that our 2027 schedule will go out probably in the next month or so where we're gonna launch those. save your pennies. We got the Japan tour is pretty much a given. Looks like we're gonna be doing a repeat of the Denmark Sweden tour.
Logan (30:21.774) would
Logan (30:36.791) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (30:37.135) So if you missed out on that one for a variety of reasons and still want to do that, I think we're probably gonna run that one again. And then we're also looking at a couple of domestic tours as well. a couple of regions around the country where there's some fun woodworking stuff and great getaways along the way too. So there you are.
Phil Huber (31:03.773) All right, here's a question that I have that devolves slightly into the silly. In that I've been watching a few woodworking videos on YouTube of different places and in different parts of the world. And I want to know how did
Phil Huber (31:29.969) Woodworking machinery, no matter practically where you are in the world, all have green paint on them. And like the same color green paint.
Logan (31:39.256) Didn't we go down this path before? I feel like we did. I thought it was like a pigment was super inexpensive.
Phil Huber (31:46.162) I know, but I don't remember the answer to that, and it just came up again because it was like I was watching a video from Japan and it was like all these old woodworking machines from Japan, green. Woodworking video from England. Jack Badger is the place. They do like a lot of stuff in oak. Super cool, a lot of handwork stuff, but in the background of a couple of their shots was like this old mortising machine. Green. Denmark, green.
John Doyle (31:46.55) Kind of like
Phil Huber (32:15.485) And
And then I was wondering, like, is that why Grizzly tools are green? And is that related to the fact that John Deere tractors are green? Like there's a there's like this green and why is it green that that's the cheap one if barns were painted red because that's the cheap color?
John Doyle (32:43.938) Maybe it was a property with the green pigment that was good for machinery versus the red for the for wood or
Phil Huber (32:55.153) Yeah. So I'm looking for all the made up answers that Logan is looking for right now on the internet, as well as consp conspiracy theories, speculation, all of that kind of stuff. This is what I expect out of our listeners.
John Doyle (33:00.012) Yeah. Wrong answers only.
Logan (33:01.122) Got
Logan (33:13.24) All right, you ready for the chat GPT answer?
Phil Huber (33:17.957) Okay.
Logan (33:20.16) So from roughly the 20s through the 60s, muted greens and grays became the standard in many factories because it was believed that soft greens and grays were less fatiguing to the eyes of workers than black or bright colors or bare cast iron because it did not reflect color. It did not reflect light without or with excessive glare. So that's the consensus from there, but
Machine Green also made it easier to spot oil leaks, build up and cracks in castings.
Phil Huber (34:01.693) All right. Top that anybody. Yeah.
Logan (34:01.814) Now, is that made up? Maybe. Maybe.
John Doyle (34:05.198) Coincidentally, those colors have the highest lead content. Probably probably.
Logan (34:12.75) Probably not wrong.
Yeah. I mean, the rest of this is kind of just talking about, you know, woodworking. A lot of this is talking about how, you know, really woodworking machinery is not unique. Like these places that made these machines made all machines, right? So it's not like they were making just woodworking machines. So there are companies like South Bend and Bridgeport and Clossing that all used kind of the same color of green. So. Yeah.
Phil Huber (34:30.397) Right.
Phil Huber (34:34.887) Fair.
John Doyle (34:48.878) So it was probably initially done for that reason and then that just became the traditional color of quality machinery and everybody copied it and it just became the the standard.
Logan (34:57.026) That's kind of my thought, yeah.
Phil Huber (34:59.547) Yeah, could be. Because if you think of like the old general tools out of Canada, they were green. And I think even Powermatic back in the day, the gold standard was actually green.
Logan (35:17.717) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (35:19.119) Related to the Packers? Probably. But
Logan (35:22.958) Hmm.
here we found a good Reddit thread on it.
Phil Huber (35:28.323) all right.
Logan (35:29.72) Okay. this one. like this answer. the Germans did a study like they always do and came across the conclusion that greens of this shade had an overall positive impact on machinists and their productivity.
Logan (35:47.128) kind of makes sense knowing Germans.
Phil Huber (35:48.581) All right. Yeah.
Logan (35:56.559) There's lots of comments on this thread.
Phil Huber (35:59.08) Feels like I would need some sources on that.
Logan (36:05.988) this is interesting and I hadn't thought about this, but this is honestly a I would believe this green is one of the last colors humans see in low light, like in the visible spectrum, which is why palette racks are always green and orange is in low light warehouse situations. Green and orange are the easiest to see.
Not that that has anything to do with the woodworking shop, but.
John Doyle (36:32.824) So they're the high viz of the dark.
Logan (36:35.34) That's right.
Logan (36:44.31) Now that people are on a tangent about vintage Japanese machines, they were green and some were blue, I guess.
Phil Huber (36:58.173) Okay. Like I said, it just came up again. I know we had talked about it earlier and I didn't really remember slash know whether we came up with something definitive on it. So
Logan (37:14.368) I mean, okay, so if you could, somebody called it institution green, which is actually a thing. Like that's an actual color and it's kind of close.
Phil Huber (37:14.513) Is that the
Phil Huber (37:26.013) All right.
There you go. Is that the reason that Logan painted his sawtill green that's behind him in the shop right there? Maybe. I don't know.
Logan (37:37.684) It was just a very nice color of linseed oil paint. Also took two weeks to dry.
Phil Huber (37:48.626) Which
Phil Huber (37:52.008) Let's admit that woodworkers can fall into fads. But it feels like a couple years ago, like there were articles all over the place, videos on how cool linseed oil paint is. And it's traditional and coming back and blah, blah, blah. I even saw an article in Fine Home Building about it.
Logan (37:56.546) Yeah.
Phil Huber (38:16.059) And it's like, do you see more linseed oil paint around or did that just flare up and then disappear real quick?
Logan (38:22.7) Well, I mean, I was waiting for it to dry. I believe, I mean, same thing could be said for milk paint, right? Like, I mean, it's the same thing.
Phil Huber (38:24.655) Or are we still waiting for it to dry?
Phil Huber (38:33.555) yeah, yeah. But I feel like milk paints last their bubble has lasted a lot longer than the than the linseed paint.
Logan (38:43.616) It has, it hasn't. Yeah. Yeah. I still enjoy the Lindsay paint. Just man, this shit takes forever to dry.
John Doyle (38:52.046) What about almond milk paint? Do you think that'll get popular?
Logan (38:56.396) It's just so hard to milk those tiny little almond nipples, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Doyle (38:59.85) I know. It's hard to get a lot of it, so it's not really feasible. Hmm. Okay. So I'd throw that up there.
Phil Huber (39:15.111) Keeping it real on the shop notes podcast.
Logan (39:16.494) Mm-hmm. That's what we do.
Phil Huber (39:22.429) All right, so have you used it recently, Logan? I know you had some of pa yeah.
Logan (39:25.986) The linseed paint. So I've used it on three projects. Saw till I did the Norwegian linen chest out of the red, like I think it's called brick red, maybe something like that. And then my Democratic chair is a black linseed paint. And I love it like I don't. I am the the outfeed table that
Phil Huber (39:40.112) yep.
Logan (39:56.251) is currently still in progress is it was four months ago is going to be linseed painted. It just has not gotten there yet. So I do. I will. I'm going to use the same green. I like the green. I need to I need to order.
Phil Huber (40:04.187) Okay. Right.
Logan (40:13.58) So it stretches really, really far, but I don't want to run out halfway because then I'm in like a five week long drying period of it. So yeah, yeah. You do, you do have to brush it on, which is my least favorite way to apply paint would much, much rather spray finish, but.
Phil Huber (40:23.931) Right. Yeah. That's true.
Logan (40:40.066) When linseed oiling, must linseed oil. So, I did not buy one of the fancy linseed paint brushes as people sell though.
Phil Huber (40:57.735) All right, John, what's going on with you?
John Doyle (41:00.814) well, I did a little woodworking field trip. I guess you'd say woodworking field trip this weekend. Friday I was cruising Facebook Marketplace. And I blame Logan because I've never really been on Facebook Mark Marketplace until the whole tool restoration. But it's like now you you get in there, it's a whole rabbit hole. You and and so like I got led down this rabbit hole. I came across
Phil Huber (41:14.62) right.
Logan (41:23.684) It's things.
John Doyle (41:30.826) A woodsmith kit from back in the day. And for a little history lessons for you young youngins, back in the 80s and 90s, it was really big for Woodsmith and Shop Notes to sell hardware kits because it was pre-internet, so everything was mail order. And if you had any kind of project with lots of hardware, you'd have to mail order from different places. So Woodsmith would put together
project kits and sell those mail order for the back of the magazine and so i found they a kit to the panel saw from shop notes four which all of all of the hardware in it is you could pick it up at you know menards or any hardware store now but so it had all of this this stuff in it and it was in
Logan (42:13.026) God.
John Doyle (42:28.536) So was in shop notes number four, nineteen ninety-two. I looked it up. It originally sold for a hundred and thirty-four ninety nine, which and it also came with the finalic plates that you would put the mount the the saw on. So I thought that was kind of cool. That was unique. And it sold for 134.99 in 1992. So basically the cost, depending on what bundle you got of a Nintendo entertainment system.
Depends if you got the power glove or not. But about that price for 1992. adjusted for inflation is like $380 today. So, you know, this was a pretty, pretty big purchase for someone. has never been opened in the 30 plus years. Still in the original sealed bag. But I drove up to Otho, Iowa. Has anybody ever heard of Otho before? Nope. I had to look it up. yep, I looked it up.
Logan (42:59.672) You
Logan (43:21.07) Nope, I'm learning so much about geography today.
John Doyle (43:26.036) It's it's basically a suburb suburb of Fort Dodge. It's just south of south of Highway 20. So I messaged this guy right away, and it's like I was talking to Phil about this because I was sitting by and was like, this is a really stupid idea, but you know you're never gonna find another one. You're never gonna find another one. We gotta bring this home. So I messaged him on Friday afternoon, and he's like, Yep, come up, get it, whatever. so I drove up there Saturday morning.
Logan (43:29.825) my god, it's way up there!
John Doyle (43:55.759) It's an hour and about twenty minutes from Ankeny. So my wife rode with me. Shh sh so went up there, bought it. Fifty bucks, you know, it's worth three hundred and eighty dollars in today's money. So
Logan (43:56.84) my god.
Logan (44:08.014) I feel like we need to do an indentum on this video we shot
Phil Huber (44:08.251) Right. Yeah. Yeah.
John Doyle (44:14.378) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not guaranteed to go up in value, but and do I need a panel saw? Nope. I don't. But you know what? I got it now and hey, maybe we'll we'll build a panel saw on YouTube just for the heck of it. So
Phil Huber (44:14.971) Was it an investment? Probably.
Phil Huber (44:20.711) Yeah.
Phil Huber (44:31.623) Maybe. I mean that historically was one of our more popular projects on Woodsmith plans over time.
John Doyle (44:36.994) Yeah. Yeah. And it it's still yeah, it still sells quite a few. I don't know if I mean track saws are the big thing now, so I don't know if panel saws are as as popular, but they both we have two different panel saw plants on Woodsmith plants and they still sell quite a bit. So and it would be a fun YouTube video. I mean with all the hardware, the only thing left is like a little over a sheet of plywood and
the the pipes for it. The conduit two piece of conduit. So I mean it came with all the screws and everything. So I don't know guys. I don't know guys. Is this crazy? Am I crazy? Yeah. And and this all yeah, this is Logan's fault. Yeah, it's that box. Original box. Has the original packing slip in it.
Phil Huber (45:11.644) Yeah, conduit.
Logan (45:19.384) That's nuts.
What the heck?
Phil Huber (45:25.853) For those of you watching on for those of you watching on YouTube, it's right there. This box right there has yep.
Logan (45:36.696) Does that have Nancy's signature on it? Jeez.
John Doyle (45:37.039) Quality checked. I was looking. I was looking. But it it just says like quality checked number one fourteen or whatever. So I'll to take it to Nancy and see if she she probably remembers it. She's like, yeah, I remember shipping that to Fort Dodge 30 some years ago. And but it's funny that it's like I mean, I can't say too much because I have projects that are pushing twenty years old that I've started and have sat there. So it's like I I don't know.
Phil Huber (45:39.929) Ha ha.
Logan (45:51.158) Yep. That's nuts.
John Doyle (46:06.104) feel kinda like I need to finish it. Never built it. Never even opened the the package. I mean the everything's sealed into a into a bag still. So it's all there. It's all there. So I don't know. If somebody if somebody listening wants to build this panel saw and needs the stuff I I I I got a deal for you. You don't even have to drive to Otho, Iowa
Logan (46:06.136) So like the guy bought it and just never built it.
Logan (46:16.824) Hmm. Hmm. Wow.
Logan (46:26.978) He's got a deal for you.
Phil Huber (46:33.243) Yeah. You might have to come for woodworking in America though and stay, see it. We'll do a do a big handoff with it. So
John Doyle (46:36.758) Yeah, yeah. So
John Doyle (46:41.954) There you go. So
Logan (46:43.704) Man.
Phil Huber (46:43.933) Part of the great Woodsmith Garage sale that we're planning too.
John Doyle (46:48.35) Yeah. Now I wanna like just drive all over and recollect all the the kits. And I should collect all the kits and put in the warehouse with Nancy. She would love it.
that it.
Phil Huber (47:02.129) Yeah, anybody out there did you order a hardware kit or a build kit? would love to know about it. we used to do like the block planes and the setup gauges and a scraper plane, all of that kind of stuff.
Logan (47:02.242) Huh.
Logan (47:05.731) Yeah.
John Doyle (47:13.55) Mm-hmm. The finger joint jig. I see a lot of those out there. The aluminum one. So
Logan (47:13.646) Yeah.
Phil Huber (47:18.833) Finger joint jig. Yep. Who's your cabinet hardware? We had that for a long time.
John Doyle (47:25.346) Yep. Clocks, cradles, you name it. It was all there. So
Logan (47:32.749) I mean, like I'm, I don't know. Like I get it. Especially like I've been selling all of this like curly ash I cut and like I've sent, I've sent blocks this all over the U S the last two weeks. So like I get people just like, if you can't get it around you. So if you were, if you're, know, in the middle of Montana, your closest hardware stores, you know, two hours away, like heck yeah. Order the kit. Like I.
Like 100%. I don't know. I, I wish we could, I wish we could offer those still because I think that it makes it easier for people to just order the entire thing ready to go. But it just, it's like the handling and stuff like keeping them in stock and handling and all that stuff. It's just a pain.
John Doyle (48:20.888) You'd almost like I could see where if we do some sort of jig that's popular and a lot of times from Inf Master Car, you might need one knob or one bolt or two bolts and they come in packs of twenty.
Logan (48:36.387) Yeah.
John Doyle (48:36.822) or whatever and if we could get a batch together, you know, break everything out into individual kits, like that kind of thing, might be helpful. But yeah, a lot of things you can just Amazon, it'll deliver it the same day or the next morning to your door. So it's like it's harder to justify that. But there yeah, there's some things that like that that if and I know there are I don't know if it's some of the clocks we've done
Logan (48:54.702) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (49:06.668) different things where the the company will put together a kit for for that project and you can order it directly from them type of thing. So build your own CNC. They put together a woodsmith CNC kit. So but yeah for us to do it not as practical.
Phil Huber (49:12.114) Yes.
Logan (49:18.904) Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
John Doyle (49:32.44) But I got it. I got the one, the one kit, the panel cell kit. If there's another one out there, let me know.
Logan (49:38.126) Maybe there's something here. Like maybe there's something here. Maybe we start putting a few kits together and doing like, I mean, I could see us doing like a limited release kit where it's like, Hey, we got 50 kits of, yeah. Pre-order 50 kits. Yep. Put them together. Ship them out. Set of printed plans with them.
John Doyle (49:43.212) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pre order or like a pre order thing. So yep.
John Doyle (49:58.391) Who knows? Yep. Hand delivered. I'll drive them to you. I don't care. I got a I got a minivan. Yeah. I'm good.
Logan (49:58.422) signed by John seal of approval hand delivered. Yeah. He's got to go see all his Frank Lloyd Wright houses and he's got to figure out if these carving museums actually exist or not.
John Doyle (50:10.804) Right. I'm coming all across Iowa. So
Logan (50:16.558) Phil Huber (50:19.687) Great niche finds on Facebook Marketplace. You never know what the internet is gonna serve up for you.
Logan (50:22.05) Mm-hmm.
Logan (50:26.591) and it just keeps on giving.
Phil Huber (50:28.817) Yeah. Yep. It does. So that's our next chunk of trunk franchise is tool and hardware kits. So keep an eye out for that as an opportunity for a side hustle and revenue for you. That's it for the Shop Notes podcast. We really can't top that anymore today. So
Send us your questions, comments, and smart remarks to woodsmith at woodsmith.com as the email address, or subscribe on the Shop Notes Podcast YouTube channel and leave a comment in the comment section. Don't forget to check out the archive of past episodes that we have. It is a wealth of information and entertainment. ShopNotes podcast is primarily for entertainment purposes only.
It's a production of Active Interest Media. It's mixed and edited by Nate Gruca. Ben Strano is the executive digital editor. It's a weekly woodworking podcast, and you're never sure what's going to happen. We'll see you next week, everybody. Bye.
